God on Trial - #1 (page 2)

individual

Amazing - God set up the institution of marriage and according to the Christian Greek scriptures a man is to have one wife. When God created Adam he created one wife, Eve, for Adam. But God overlooked the Israelites and their practice of polygamy. Now when Israelites had concubines as extra to their wives surely this is fornication? But God in the bible condemns fornication and adultery. This is another inconsistency because he allowed it to continue in Israel giving laws to protect concubines and extra wives so therefore stamping his approval on the practise. I raised this question with other JWs and the only answer I got was that He needed the Israelite seed to become many and become a large nation so in order for his purpose to be completed he allowed them to have several wives and concubines. So why not instead just make the woman more productive and stick with one wife per man? Was it impossible for God to do so and make triplets and quadruplets the norm and birth easier whilst He was building His nation? Why establish rules that allow a man to have more than one wife only to have this 'unchanging' God change this law after Christ?

detective

Iwas just thinking about this- in a court of law you shouldn't be able to quote Jesus. As there are no books in the bible attributed to Jesus himself, you would have to quote someone else quoting Jesus. This would be inadmissable as it is second hand information. For that matter, I suppose you couldn't quote the biblical God either, as he just gets quoted a whole bunch by others as well. Also, there is the whole translation issue which would make info third hand, I suppose.
Hmmmm, I guess that'd really screw those child-beatens who say it's okay because it's in the bible so God must approve.

Sometimes I really hate how people use God and the bible as an excuse to be vile human beings.

Amazing

Hi Individual: You make an excellent point about marriage. Back in those days men did not live as long because they fought more wars. But, God could have simply protected Israel in peace and the men would not have died off and they would have mulitplied. So, your point is great.

One side thought: The qualification for Christian Elders said that an overseer must be a husband of one wife. Thus is a Christian man had more than one wife, he could not serve as an Elder. So, it seems that even when Jesus Christ himself tried to clear up the marriage arrangement to be monogamus, the Apostle Paul mucked it up again in his letter to Timothy. Thanks again. - Amazing

Amazing

Hi Detective:

You noted, "... - in a court of law you shouldn't be able to quote Jesus. As there are no books in the bible attributed to Jesus himself, you would have to quote someone else quoting Jesus. This would be inadmissable as it is second hand information."

Yes, good point, as hearsay is normally not allowed in a criminal trial, but can be allowed in a civil proceding at times.

You continued, "For that matter, I suppose you couldn't quote the biblical God either, as he just gets quoted a whole bunch by others as well. Also, there is the whole translation issue which would make info third hand, I suppose."

I agree, and this may suggest that the root cause of religious problems goes right to the heart of a book written by men, who claim God spoke, but we have no proof. The inconsistencies, therefore, suggest that any good God of Love could not have participated in such a thing. But, without the Bible, what do we know about God? Interesting conflict!

You concluded, "Sometimes I really hate how people use God and the bible as an excuse to be vile human beings."

Bingo! - and they use God to manipulate and control others, and do not realize what a con game it all is. About the only true thing J. F. Rutherford ever said is, "Religion is a racket and a snare."

Amazing

patio34

Hi Amazing,

I liked your post. Another related fact I learned from Joseph Campbell (The Power of Mythology) was that prior to the Hebrews, religions of the Mesopotamia area worshipped goddesses. They were farmers who were settled and peaceable. It was reflected too in their worship. The peoples who were herders and nomadic were more warlike and they did NOT have goddesses; they had war gods. He stated that Yahweh was one of the totalarian war gods (hence all of Israel's wars), without even being 'married' to a goddess as the Greeks had.

Pat

bigboi

Amazing:

I think a better question would have been: Why did God order the extermination of all the Canaanites? It doesn't make sense to me focus on one episode in that period of biblical history. The Isrealites were conducting a full fledge war of conquest, after all.

What really is your aim by posting this, really? I'm curious.

ONE....

bigboi

"life's a bitch a with a g-string and a twelve pack of Busch."

Amazing

Hi Bigboi: You said,

"I think a better question would have been: Why did God order the extermination of all the Canaanites? It doesn't make sense to me focus on one episode in that period of biblical history. The Isrealites were conducting a full fledge war of conquest, after all."

Bingo! They were returning to the land after a 430 year exile, or as some state 215 year exile, depending on your style of math. Prior to this, they were not a nation. But, upon returning they became a Covenant People and a nation under the leadership of Moses, and then Joshua after Moses passed away.

What right did they have to come in and steal the land, kill many people, and plunder the spoils? God told them to. Why? What possessed God to work this way?

You asked, "What really is your aim by posting this, really? I'm curious."

To face tough questions and find answers. - Amazing

chappy

Hi Amazing,

I'd like to respond in depth later in the thread, but time doesn't permit tonight. here's my quote from the "For those of us who still believe in God" thread. It's how I feel in a nutshell.

Seems to me the biggest problem people have with God is the term omnipetance---God can do anything. Both believers and non-believers put God in a paradoxial box by insisting He/She must have this attribute. Many athiests point to the fact that an omnipetant God would solve all of our problems but doesn't; therefore they wouldn't worship him even if He/She existed. Believers make excuses for this "inaction"; giving God the human qualities of anger,retribution and willfull infliction of pain upon us all; part of his omnipetant "justice". Even the bible says God can't lie, therefore God can't be omnipetant.
I believe the Creator has a purpose that we are not yet in a position to comprehend; kinda like an unborn child trying to understand what's happening as he is being born. This life is short, and forever is a long time.
On the other hand, would you really God to control every aspect of your life, with no danger or challenges? Would you want to ride a roller coaster w/o being scared? Think about it.
later,
chappy

Amazing

Hi Chappy: Excellent points. No, I would not want God controlling every act in my life. But, the issue is not whether God would make life like a cream puff safe from any challenge. Rather, the issue is why God himself ordered the genocidal extermination of an entire city, men, women, children, even babies. Why, in the face of his own command to Israel not to murder - part of his perfect Law through Moses - wold God then cause Israel to murder an entire city? What is God teaching us by His own actions? - Amazing

belbab

Amazing,

I too have thought often of the topic you have posted here. I do not have time right now for an extensive reply, but I would like to throw in a few points, to broaden the various viewpoints already given by you and those who have replied.

Permit me to bring it up to a modern perspective. Why, towards the end of World War II, were two cities in Japan, preserved from being bombed by "conventional" bombers, and then completely annihilated, children, old people and animals totally devasted, by atomic bombs?

Does God have the same viewpoint on death as we do? Many of us believe he is the Creator of Life, but we are critical when he is also the Destroyer of Life.

If you had power, time and motivation, How would you settle the crisis in Palestine, today? We have suicide bombers on one side, tanks and planes on the other side, practising selective killing. I am not saying which side is right or wrong. I just want to know how you would solve the crisis. Children are being wiped out here.

At Jericho, God also was in on the destruction, he knocked the walls down. and the city was wiped out. According to my partial knowledge of history down through the ages, there were some very atrocious activities going on . Would you want prisoners to be taken, and worked to death to enhance the conquerors wealth. Would you want women to be preserved, and then raise their sons to continue the conflict in twenty years? Would you want children to be preserved, and like a legend of the natives here on the West coast, where an old couple captured children, tied them up in their long house to a pole, fed them to fatten them up and then butchered and ate them, as they needed them through the winter.

One last point a little closer to home. We have this pedophile question within the ranks of an organization that claims that God's name should be honored above all else. Some are devouring the children while they are still alive. They are traumitized in their infancy, and the Opposer keeps them bound for the rest of their lives. Many have been the comments on this board that demand that they be locked up for life. Not too many centuries ago, they would have their heads lopped off.

Humanity is being created , I hope, in the image of a loving God. Humanity is being raised from barbarism, to the ideal of a collective Son of Man. Maybe it takes a destruction of a Jericho, to hasten that eventuallity.

belbab, searching for the answers.

God on Trial - #1

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