Trinity ?'s

sinis

Can someone please explain the trinity in an easy to understand format? I have been doing a lot of reading, Dr. Mantey,etc. and am starting to lean towards that. From my reading I do not believe that the Holy Spirit is just "electricity" as the JW's teach or the NT would not use greek words that imply gender. Also, how can you sin against "electricity" and condemn yourself forever? I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around three distinct beings in one - maybe I am looking at this from the wrong angle. Also, if Jesus is godlike and died does that mean a part of god was dead for three days? Is the Holy Spirit the keeper of ones spirit? The more I read the more it becomes confusing and in a way illogical. My conflict comes from reading what the bible says and falling back on what I was taught as a JW. I do think if a "trinity" exists it is far more complicated than just three in one. Thanks.

LittleToe

Try this hat on for size, to see if it's a stepping stone to understanding for you.

Just as humans are different from animals in the material world, Angels are different from "God".

There's a family, potentially of Father, Mother and Son - all of the same genus called "God", just as we are from the genus of "Man".

Three persons, but one "God".

Since some of the attributes of this class of being is omnipresence and living in "eternity" instead of time, they all occupy the same time and space.

Three persons, but one "God".

I'll let ya run with that, for the moment

sinis

Try this hat on for size, to see if it's a stepping stone to understanding for you.
Just as humans are different from animals in the material world, Angels are different from "God".
There's a family, potentially of Father, Mother and Son - all of the same genus called "God", just as we are from the genus of "Man".
Three persons, but one "God".
Since some of the attributes of this class of being is omnipresence and living in "eternity" instead of time, they all occupy the same time and space.
Three persons, but one "God".
I'll let ya run with that, for the moment

What I am finding confusing is that most will say all three are equivalant in knowledge and power. If this is the case then why did jesus instruct his disciples to pray to the FATHER. Why not pray to him since he would also be "God"? Also, Jesus did not know the day or the hour for the coming kingdom, why not? If they are all equal why would the Father know this info and the Son would not? Finally the scripture that speaks of jesus not wanting to seize power or be equal to god. These are just a few examples that I am having a hard time coming to terms with. Thanks.

Check_Your_Premises

http://www.biblicalanswers.net/docs/ev04287_ets2004.pdf

This one is a pretty good breakdown of how to explain the trinity to a jw. I think it might answer some of your questions as well.

CYP

sinis

Try this hat on for size, to see if it's a stepping stone to understanding for you.
Just as humans are different from animals in the material world, Angels are different from "God".
There's a family, potentially of Father, Mother and Son - all of the same genus called "God", just as we are from the genus of "Man".
Three persons, but one "God".
Since some of the attributes of this class of being is omnipresence and living in "eternity" instead of time, they all occupy the same time and space.
Three persons, but one "God".
I'll let ya run with that, for the moment

That makes sense, its easier to understand it that way. So why the big shift from the Father in the OT to the Son in the NT? The Father seems a little more stern in the OT while the Son seems a little more easy going in the NT. Also, why would "god" have to die for mans sins, when considering that jesus was part of the godship? All of these subjects ("ransom", etc.) start taking on new/different meanings when you factor Jesus in as "god" and not some low level creation.

carla

I suggest you get the book, "Yes, You Should Believe in the Trinity!!!" By Christina R. Harvey, A page-by-page response to the Watchtower Society's Brouchure- should you believe in the Trinity. I think you can get it at many of the exjw sites. I think mine was from Witness Inc.

I think you are hanging on to many of the wt teachings of the Trinity which are not what the Trinity actually is. If you still think that Jesus is Michael you will have extreme problems even trying to understand what Christians really believe about the Trinity.

sinis

I suggest you get the book, "Yes, You Should Believe in the Trinity!!!" By Christina R. Harvey, A page-by-page response to the Watchtower Society's Brouchure- should you believe in the Trinity. I think you can get it at many of the exjw sites. I think mine was from Witness Inc.
I think you are hanging on to many of the wt teachings of the Trinity which are not what the Trinity actually is. If you still think that Jesus is Michael you will have extreme problems even trying to understand what Christians really believe about the Trinity.

Thanks for the link above - makes sense now. As far as believing that Jesus is michael I never did even when I was a JW. Thanks again the responses and illustrations have helped me.

LittleToe

You're quoting Philippians 2. A good grasp of that is essential, as the JWs filled our heads with nonsense.

One of the three persons emptied Himself and became human. Confined in space and time, with a limited mind that could "learn" instead of just "know".

Distinguishing between the human "Jesus" and his Divinity which is found in "God" is an essential part of understanding what those writers were trying to say.

Honesty

What I am finding confusing is that most will say all three are equivalant in knowledge and power. If this is the case then why did jesus instruct his disciples to pray to the FATHER. Why not pray to him since he would also be "God"? Also, Jesus did not know the day or the hour for the coming kingdom, why not? If they are all equal why would the Father know this info and the Son would not?

Jesus was fully human and at the same time was fully God when He became flesh. He had God's DNA just as Adam did when he was created. Trouble is, Adam lost the God DNA when he sinned.

If you look in Acts you will find that Stephen called on or prayed to Jesus when he was being stoned to death.

Acts 7:59-60 They were stoning Stephen as he called out: “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin!” And saying this, he fell asleep .

Here's another one to mediatate on:

1 Tim 3:16 And most certainly, the mystery of godliness is great: He was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

truth about the last days

I got some old bibles from Ebay which says that John 1;1 states that "the Word was God". However, v 1 also states that "the word was "with God". Also in v 34 says that this is the "son of God".Seeing that man was made in "Gods image", there is a relationship between Father and Son. The Holy Spirit is an active force than can do things that man cannot do, like raise persons from the dead, or cause the Red Sea to part in Moses time. So, brace yourselves to the TRUE explantion of John 1:1. Since John1:1 was first written, emperer Constintine at one stage of his life started blending pagen rituals with true christanity. And in time, John 1;1 was used to imply that there are three entities which were the same entity. This teaching was handed down for many a years.So everyone belived in the 3 in 1 god. And when the WT read it they decided to change John1:1 to say "was a god"- which they should of not have done. What John 1:1 really ment was God was origanaly called "The Word" before he made his "only begotten son". When he created his "only begotten son", He named him after himself and called him "the Word". Seeing that it could be confusing to have two "the Word"s for the heavens and earth, the Creater changed His name to "God". As we know later that when the Isrealites wanted a name for their God, his name change again to Yahwah or Jehovah. When the "Word" came to earth as a human, his name changed again to "Jesus". And when Jesus acended to the heavenly places, he has been called Michael and other names. So, John 1:1 says " In the beginning WAS the Word, and the Word WAS with God, and the Word WAS God." Apparently, the mixed pagen and christain decided to give the last word "God" a capital "G" instead of a small "g" through translations. All those beliving in the Trinity automatically gives a contridition of the complete John1. Even verse 29 states Jesus as the "Lamb of God". It will also suggest that if he was God that came in the "flesh", each time he prayed was he actually talking to himself. if he did this, he would of been branded as a madman. So, christendom should have not use John 1:1 to support a Trinity, and the WT should have not changed John 1:1 at all.Keith.

Trinity ?'s

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