thewiz,
Quite humorous, but really that is an excellent question. Tell me, did any elder ever answer you?
"By doubting we come at truth" -Cicero
JW Stumper Questions!!!
by Brutus 26 Replies latest jw friends
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nicolaou
Who was the most successful preacher, Jesus Christ or Charles Taze Russell?
[You may need to remind your dub that no more than about 85,000 individuals were 'anointed' before Russell established the Watchtower Society.]Show me from Scripture how you arrive at 2520 years for the length of the Gentile Times.
In Daniel 4:20-22 Jehovah's Prophet applies the meaning of the tree to Nebuchadnezzar, an idolatrous, God defying, pagan!
The Watchtower applies the meaning of the tree to Jehovah God himself ['Live Forever' page 139 "this heaven-high tree, comes to represent the supreme rulership of God"]- who is correct, Daniel or the Watchtower?In Matthew 24:3 Jesus disciples asked him "what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?"
If, as the Watchtower asserts, the timing of these exact events had been pinpointed and prophecied by Daniel more than 5 centuries earlier [1914]- why would the disciples, who were very familiar with the book of Daniel, even ask such an obvious question?
But having asked it, why did Jesus not refer them back to Daniel for the answer?
Questions, questions.....
don't get me started.Nic'
dnc - coming soon!
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TheOldHippie
Nice, Cygnus, excellent to-the point replies to the questions!
By the way, the one posing the questions tells us Henschel is President; he is not, M. H. Larson is. -
larc
Mad Apostate,
I can address one of your questions, to wit, when did the Witnesses reject Russell? It was in 1951. "who is preaching the teaching of Pastor Russell? Certainly not Jehovah's Witnesses! They can not be accused of following him, for they neither quote him as an authority nor publish or ditribute his writing." Awake! May 8, 1951.
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MadApostate
Larc:
It would be nice if you could post the entirety of that article to show the context.
Based on the continuous and ongoing positive comments regarding Russell in the various pubs, including the various "histories", since 1951, it is obvious that the 1951 comments were something less than a "rejection" of Russell.
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ozziepost
Cygnus,
We need to talk! You may not be stumped but perhaps you are easily convinced.
It is only rational and reasonable to believe that the original manuscripts would contain the Tetragrammaton when quoting from the Hebrew Scritures.
Maybe so, but what of the occasions which are not quotes from the Old Testament?Isaiah 44:24 was God declaring that all other deities which people claim to be gods are not gods at all. The issue of Christ's prehuman existence is not being discussed. Jesus is a mighty god by the power of Almighty God Jehovah.
Haven't you contradicted yourself? If Jehovah is saying in Isaiah 44 that all other gods are no gods at all, how can you then describe Jesus as one of these 'lesser gods'?144,000 is a literal number because it is mentioned twice in Revelation and is in contrast with the unlimited number of the great crowd. Paul said that the spiritual temple is made of up spiritual Jews, that Jews as a race are no longer favored by God.
Yes, I can see that this has long been taught by the WTS since Rutherford introduced it, but is it correct? Mainstream christians believe that the 144,000 refers to the Jewish Christians and the great crowd to the Gentile Christians. Doesn't that seem simpler?Jesus might have had two nails through his hands. We don't know exactly what sort of instrument Jesus died on, or what exact method was used
Who is the "we" you refer to here? The WTS doesn't teach that.The Watchtower has apologized for such error
When did that apology take place? I must have missed reading or hearing it. Perhaps you can give us the reference.Therefore we must conclude that Thomas' expression was of another nature than to be referring to Jesus as the God of Israel.
Putting words in someone else's mouth, perhaps?Regardless of what humans perceive, Jehovah's day is coming right on schedule
Does that include the F&DS?The fundamental truths never change.
What are the fundamental truths?The Bible uses personification all the time. If the Holy Spirit were an actual person, why doesn't the Holy Spirit talk more often?
And if there is to be a Paradise earth for millions (not 1444,000) of mankind, why isn't there anything about it in the NT? Why is the only hope spoken about the heavenly hope, to be with the Father?Cheers,
Ozzie"Evil is the absence of empathy"
Movie (2000), Nuremberg -
ballistic
about the simese twins...
wouldn't you feel sorry for the one that got dragged round on field service and made to sit through the Watchtower, especially being a smoker.
And what about when the one wanted to get pissed (drunk in US)?
Would the jw one be accused of leading a double life?
Would jw's apply the rule, if your hand sins... cut it off?
What about sex? I dont even wanna go there!I was too far out... and not waving but drowning - Stevie Smith
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trevor
The adoption of the name 'Jehovah's Witnesses'was a shrewd move. The Bible contains many references to Witnesses, and now these scriptures could be given a direct application. This was to be used to the full. Later their own version of the Bible was to render the previously quoted scripture: “You are my Witness,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen,… (Isaiah 43:10 – NW)
It could now be claimed that far from being a new religion, Jehovah's Witnesses were in fact the oldest religion in the world to worship the God of the Bible.
In the book entitled “The New World.” Abel, Noah and Moses are named in person and claimed as Jehovah's Witnesses, also Job:
“It is the proper time, therefore, to consider carefully the life history of Job, who was a Witness for Jehovah God. His true life experience was a prophetic drama which exposes the war hotly waged by religion against Jehovah's Witnesses from and after Abel, the first martyr slain by a religionist.” (Page 130)(1942)Job, who was now a Jehovah's Witness, was still late returning, but not forgotten:
“The scriptural and physical facts prove that Job is due to be resurrected shortly with those faithful men to appear on earth with them…those faithful men of old may be expected back any day now. The scriptures give us good reason to believe that it shall be shortly before Armageddon breaks.” (Pages 104 & 130)
In the book entitled “Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose” further fascinating claims are made. The first chapter – “A People with a most Ancient History”- states:
“Jesus himself was a member of this ancient Jewish nation and he was one of Jehovah's Witnesses.”… “No greater Witness than Jesus ever lived on earth, and one of his apostles specifically called Jesus a Witness.”… “Do you mean to say, then, that Jesus’ disciples were Witnesses too? Certainly. Christians are urged to emulate all those ancient Witnesses that preceded them back to Able.” (1959)The adoption of the name Jehovah's Witnesses was another example of scripture being applied with the benefit of hindsight.
Trevor
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Brutus
Mad Apostate,
In 1879 Russell founded a periodical, Zion’s Watchtower and Herald of Christ’s Presence, followed in 1881 with the establishment of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. He also began work on his seven-volume Studies on Scripture, which he promoted more vigorously than the Scriptures themselves.Even as he was successfully building up a following, Russell’s personal life was crumbling. In 1912 he sued a Baptist pastor for libel and proceeded to perjure himself in court, claiming that he knew the Greek alphabet and then failing to correctly identify the letters of a Greek New Testament passage. He suffered further humiliation when, in 1913, his wife successfully sued him for divorce on grounds of “his conceit, egotism, domination, and improper conduct in relation to other women.”3
Russell died in 1916 and was succeeded by a prominent lawyer and judge, Joseph Franklin Rutherford, a former Baptist who had joined the Society in 1906. The judge demanded unquestioned authority, provoking a schism in 1918. Although he retained Russell’s teachings intact, Rutherford wanted to distance the Society from the disgraced name of its founder (members were originally known as “Russellites”), and in 1931 he changed its name to Jehovah’s Witnesses. The focus of the Society also changed--from Bible study to witnessing. in 1940 Witnesses began street distribution of “The Watch Tower.” At the same time their tone became more abrasive as Rutherford “scathingly denounced all organized religions and generated among his followers a tone of unmitigated hostility towards Christian churches.”4
Can't you admit your tiny is brain washed by jibbersh? I'm not part of any group, I believe in GOD but I don't have to become a part of some organization or cult that has rules to believe in GOD. I have my own spiritual connection with him. Wake up and smell the coffee!!
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Brutus
More Questions:
If Christ will not have a visible return to earth, then how will he be seen by "ALL the tribes of the earth" (Mt 24:30) and by "EVERY eye" (Rev 1:7) when he returns?If the Holy Spirit is God's impersonal active force, how could he: Be referred to as "he" and "him" in Jn 16:7-8 and Jn 16:13-14; Bear witness - Jn 15:26; Feel hurt - Isa 63:10; Be blasphemed against - Mk 3:29; Say things - Ezek 3:24, Acts 8:29, 10:19, 11:12, 21:11, Heb10:15-17, Rev 2:7; Desire - Gal 5:17; Be outraged - Heb 10:29; Search -1Cor 2:10; Comfort - Acts 9:31; Be loved - Rom 15:30 ; Be lied to and be God - Acts 5:3-4?
What is the meaning of Rev 14:9-11, which says, "... If anyone worships the wild beast ... he shall be tormented with fire and sulphur ... And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever ...". Where could "anyone" be "tormented ... forever and ever"?
Jn 1:3 says in reference to Christ, "All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence". How could Christ have been a created being if ALL things came into existence through him? If Jesus was a created being, then according to Jn 1:3, Jesus would have had to create himself.If the spirit of a man has no existence apart from the body, why does Stephen just before his death in Acts 7:59, pray to Jesus to "receive my spirit"? How could Jesus receive Stephen's spirit if a man's spirit ceases to exist when the body dies?
If the great crowd is to have everlasting life on paradise EARTH, why does 1Thess 4:17 say, "...we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR; and thus we shall always be with the Lord"?
If there are 144,000 spirit anointed people who have a heavenly hope, and a great crowd of people who have another hope of everlasting life on paradise earth, why does Paul say that there is only ONE hope (Eph 4:4), instead of two?
If there is no conscious awareness after death, how could the "spirits in prison" be preached to by Christ after his death (1Pet 3:18-20) and how could the good news be "declared also to the dead" (1Pet 4:6)?
In Phil 2:9, the NWT inserts the word "other", even though it doesn't appear in the original Greek (see Gr-Engl Interlinear). What is the reason for inserting this word? Is the word "Jehovah" a name? See Ex 6:3, Ps 83:18, and Isa 42:8. How would the verse read if the word "other" had not been inserted? What does scripture say about adding words to the Bible? See Prov 30:5-6.
Heb 9:28, speaking of Christ, says "... and the second time he appears..." How can Christ APPEAR a second time if he will not have a visible return to earth?Amos 4:11 says, "'I caused an overthrow among you people, like God's overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah. And you came to be like a log snatched out of [the] burning; but you did not come back to me,' is the utterance of Jehovah." How can Jehovah speaking in this verse refer to another person as God ("... like GOD'S overthrow of Sodom ...")?
In Rev 19:1, where does it say that the "great crowd" will be?
If Christians are persecuted for the sake of Jehovah's name, why did Christ tell the first Christians that they would be persecuted for the sake of his (Jesus') name instead of Jehovah's (Mt 24:9, Mk 13:13, Lk 21:12, 17, Jn 15:21, and Acts 9:16)?
In Col 1:15-17, the NWT inserts the word "other" 4 times even though it is not in the original Greek (see Gr-Engl interlinear). Why is the word "other" inserted? How would these verses read if the word "other" had not been inserted?
In 2Pet 1:1, the NWT inserts the word "the". Why is it inserted? How would the verse read if the word "the" was not inserted? What does scripture say about adding words to the Bible? (See Prov 30:5-6).
In the sermon on the mount, when Jesus was addressing the "great crowd" (Lk 6:17), why did he tell them in Lk 6:22-23, "...your reward is great in heaven ..."?
In Mt 1:23, who is Matthew referring to here that has been given the name which means "With Us Is God"?