"no man hath seen God at any time"

mdb

In the book Let God Be True (Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 1946), p.86-87, section titled “IS THERE A TRINITY?”, while attempting to disprove the trinity doctrine using 1 Tim 3:16, it states: The translation, word for word from the Greek, reads, "Who was manifested in flesh." The American Standard uses "He who"; other versions use the word "which". If this had been Almighty God incarnated, and which it would have to be if the "trinity" were true, then these words of John would be false: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (John 1:18) Being that no man has seen God at any time, who appeared to Abram and revealed Himself as “Almighty God” in Gen 17:1? Abraham later recognized the Lord when He appeared to him again in Gen 18:1-3. Then, in Gen 19:24, “The Lord (YHWH) hath rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord (YHWH), from the heavens”.

Satanus

Moses and the elders w him also saw god. This is one of the bible contradictions. The wt has taken the materialist/literalist side of it, as compared to the spiritual/allegorical side. The wt god can only be in one place at a time, kind of like a human bean. A more spiritual person has a god that is more edept/adaptable.

S

Shazard

Most funny is comparing Isaiah 6:5-10 with John 12:39-41 ... JW just can't explain this.

skyman

Shazard thinks for your post

mdb

comparing Isaiah 6:5-10 with John 12:39-41

Well done.

Equally, there is the account of Jacob who physically wrestled with God and had his hip wrenched while they struggled.

So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared." (Gen 32:30)

Satanus

Here is what i was referring to:

***

Rbi8 Exodus 24:9-11 ***

9

And Moses and Aaron, Na´dab and A·bi´hu and seventy of the older men of Israel proceeded to go up, 10 and they got to see the God of Israel. And under his feet there was what seemed like a work of sapphire flagstones and like the very heavens for purity. 11 And he did not put out his hand against the distinguished men of the sons of Israel, but they got a vision of the [true] God and ate and drank.

S

Muffinman

Also in Genesis 26:2
"2 The LORD appeared to Isaac and said, "Do not go down to Egypt; live in the land where I tell you to live."

Narkissos

mdb,

I read your initial post several times and still fail to get your point.

Whether Jesus is to be identified with Yhwh or not, the contradiction between the OT theophanies (divine manifestations) and the statement in John 1:18 remains, doesn't it?

mdb

The use of Jn 1:18 is not a contradiction of the Scriptures. That's the point to be made here. The WTS attempts to use Jn 1:18 to indicate that if Christ was God, then it would be a contradiction since, man would have seen God.

The Son, who is God (not the person of the Father) has been seen of man as proved by His appearing to the forefathers in the OT and his incarnation as Jesus Christ (Emmanuel - God with us). The Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, has revealed the Father (the person of God who no man can see without dying) to us. The Lord is YHWH. He revealed Himself to Abraham as "Almighty God" in the book of Genesis and says in the NT that if we have seen the Son, we have seen the Father.

Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Jn 14:8,9

Jesus is God and the use of John 1:18 to refute the claim is weak.

knothead34

this is the exact question I asked my study teacher. How can it be that no man has seen God, when Moses and other OT guys did. She told me that in the OT, noone every "saw" God. God may have "appeared in a cloud, etc." but noone ever actually saw God in bodily form or ever heard His voice. I still think that's far fetched, but that was their explanation.

"no man hath seen God at any time"

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