Why Does God Allow Evil?

by Frenchy 58 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Frenchy

  waiting
  I hope that I am always straightforward for that is my intent. I know that you are always so and I appreciate that. I can appreciate also your and puppylove's views on God. It's just as difficult to believe as it is not to. In the end one can prove neither. I don't know that it really makes that much difference after all is said. If one truly believes that he is coming back and dies with that strong belief then it really doesn't matter that he doesn't come back, does it? He never really knows that he was wrong, he entered eternity with a happy thought that can never be discredited.
  Maybe that's all that God gave us. Who knows? Hmmm... where's my faith when I need it?

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  Frenchy

  I want to thank all you who commented (and perhaps just read) the posts on this thread. It has been my experience that this (God's permission of evil) is probably the single most difficult thing to reconcile to a loving and comppasionate God. It's consideration has been sufficient for many to dismiss the possibility of a merciful and loving God summarily.
  Of course, the picture of God painted by the O.T. was quite different from the one painted by Jesus and yet He is the same God. I am intrigued by this as well. I have long tried to reconcile this also and as yet the pieces have not come together.
  I find myself going back to the account of Job. Reading the account carefully I have come to conclude that God actually provoked the Devil into doing what he did. God is the one that brought up the subject of Job and taunted the Devil with Job's integrity. After that God deliberately allowed Job to believe that these adversities were coming from him and when Job was at his lowest, God actually reprimanded Job when He had earlier told the Devil that Job was 'blameless'. Job's response? He humbly accepted the discipline and never once ascribed anything improper to God.
  Perhaps the account of Job is one of a real person and perhaps it is not. In either case it makes a strong point. If he was a real man then it shows of what stuff we are made for we are are of the same material as Job. If it is an allegory and Job represents all of mankind, it is equally important in that this is what God expects of us, intends us to be. If we are not such yet, then it is a destiny yet to be fulfilled.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  TR

  I'm starting to come to the conclusion that there is no God. At least the God of the bible. More and more it seems like a myth. What a sick personage Jehovah is, killing and maiming people. His orders, according to the O.T. Millions of people brutally wiped out, by God himself! Let alone all those that suffer and are murdered at the hands of fellow humans. What a sick and twisted thing to allow to happen, if there is a God.

  Maybe we're just like the animal kingdom, killing and being killed. Only with our "advanced" intellegence, we can do it in more inventive ways, with agenda's attached, or just for the fun of it.
• 

  Frenchy

  Faith exists only where proof is not present. Once there is proof then faith cannot remain. Faith sometimes flies in the face of logic and is often the long shot rather than the favorite. Either there is a God or there isn't. Neither belief nor disbelief will change that. Belief will make one search very hard for Him. Disbelief will do the opposite. In the end the believer is no worst off than the unbeliever if there is no God. However, there is fifty-fifty chance that the believer is right. And boy what a difference that will make if he is.
  One cannot arbitrarily choose to believe in God. (I commented on this once I believe) One must look very hard for reasons to do so.
  A long time of observance of men and nature have given me reason to hope and conseqently have faith that there is a God. If there is then I believe that he is the one that Jesus described and imitated.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  AhHah

  I can appreciate also your and puppylove's views on God. It's just as difficult to believe as it is not to. In the end one can prove neither. I don't know that it really makes that much difference after all is said. If one truly believes that he is coming back and dies with that strong belief then it really doesn't matter that he doesn't come back, does it? He never really knows that he was wrong, he entered eternity with a happy thought that can never be discredited.

  In the end the believer is no worst off than the unbeliever if there is no God. However, there is fifty-fifty chance that the believer is right. And boy what a difference that will make if he is.

  The big question: What will be the difference?

  Edited by - AhHah on 12 October 2000 2:35:1
• 

  jwsdefender

  You people have to understand, It is us who pulled away from our life giver. satan made a claim that man does not need God to live peacefully and happy. God had to let this be settled, if he would have just destroyed satan it never would be. Satan is the ruler of this system. Our first human parents should have never rebelled and listened to him... Jehovah promises to replace this system with a paridise and to resurect those who have suffered. Think about what you people are saying and remember that Jehovah is a reader of hearts.

  Its just like a fan that has been unplugged, it wont run, this is why we die, dont blame God, we are the imperfect ones. Nobody should trust anything that they read in here or on any web page trust in Jehovah with all your heart, do not trust in nobles or any earhtling man who just dies any way. If you truly want to know the truth Jehovah will meke himself known to you.
• 

  AhHah

  Again, welcome jwsdefender,

  I just responded to another of your posts. Your words remind me very much of myself at one time.

  In my other response, to your post about the Bible's standards for true worship, I encouraged you to read Ray Franz's books if you truly want all the evidence about Jehovah's Witnesses (much of which is purposely kept hidden from the non-Governing Body members of Jehovah's Witnesses).

  I would also encourage you to read the Christian Greek scriptures separately from the Bible study aids of JW's. As you read them, ask yourself if the way JWs practice their religion (again, here you need more facts than just a couple of meetings) really conforms to the spirit and standards of Christianity.

  Apply the Bible's own standards of recognizing a true prophet from God to the history of JWs since their formation in the late 1800s. Again, here you will need access to honest information which JWs now attempt to hide from their members. Remember, the truth has nothing to fear from examination. Proceed carefully. Much is at stake.

  Also remember your own wise advice:

  do not trust in nobles or any earhtling man

  Edited by - AhHah on 12 October 2000 2:43:47
• 

  Frenchy

  AhHah
  After my disillusionment with the WTS I too began to disbelieve in God. I understand that this is not uncommon. (Fuel for another discussion which I will leave for another time and place) It was very hard for me not to believe in God. To think that all of creation is an accident and of no purpose. I came to realize that acceptance of the notion that there is no God would logically end my search for evidence of his existence. I had to learn again my need for God and once again initiate a search for him. I had to separate what I had been told of him from what I had read of him in the Bible and my personal experiences. For me (I’m not preaching here, I hope, only describing my own personal situation) I came to realize that belief in God was all important. I have faith in him once more. That is not to say that doubts do not exist from time to time. (Did not even Jesus cry out once in desperation to his Father?) Nor does it imply that I cannot fully appreciate an atheist’s view either.
  I have faith but I know that there exists the possibility that I am wrong. Does that sound contradictory? In my life there are many contradictions and I have learned to live with them. In the end, if I die with the belief that there is a God that will remember me and give me life again then it really doesn’t matter if I don’t come back inasmuch as I will have died with that hope in my heart. I will never know it if I don’t come back. If I die with no hope of an afterlife and there is no God then in this case there is no difference between the believer and the non-believer. Neither comes back.
  But if there is a God and he wants his creation to seek him out then the believer returns and the non-believer does not. That is the difference. I think that this is a very big difference. Why does God want one to believe in him? That too is fuel for yet another discussion. I have my own ideas about that also.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  Frenchy

  jwsdefender
  Thank you for your participation here. Most if not all who read and post here are familiar with JW doctrine and reasoning. Most of those who post are/were JWs for a number of years. They have all heard the reasoning given by the Society and have, to various degrees, taken issue with those explanations.
  Not everyone here accepts the Bible as the inspired Word of God. I am one that does accept it so I would be very interested in any passages of Scripture that you would like to share that sheds light on your statement:

  satan made a claim that man does not need God to live peacefully and happy. God had to let this be settled

  I would also like some elaboration or clarification of this statement of yours:

  if he would have just destroyed satan it never would be.

  
  I am assuming by your screen name as well as your comments that you are an active JW and are in full agreement with JW doctrine. Please correct me if I am wrong. If this is so then I would appreciate your comment on the scripture you alluded to in your post (Ps 146:3) about putting your trust in men. I hope we can discuss this without any hostility. Ps 133:1 says: “Look! How good and how pleasant it is For brothers to dwell together in unity!” (NWT) In his famous discourse to the men of Athens Paul agreed with them in that we are all the children of God. (Acts 17: 28,29) That makes us all brothers and as such we should delight in any unity we can achieve. There are many of us here that are searching very diligently for the truth. We share with each other what we have learned and I look forward to your comments.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

  Edited by - Frenchy on 12 October 2000 9:18:21
• 

  AhHah

  But if there is a God and he wants his creation to seek him out then the believer returns and the non-believer does not. That is the difference. I think that this is a very big difference.

  Not even the Bible says that the non-believer does not return. I am unable to reconcile why an all-powerful, loving God would deny any afterlife he has planned for humans, simply because the person was not able to become convinced of his existence. I find some atheists to be much more "God-like" in their actions than many "Christians" that I have known. As I have stated before, I personally believe (at this time) that it is more likely that any afterlife is assured. I also believe that how one lives one's life is more important than any profession of belief. I believe that the threat of no after life is a very human, unloving device to enslave others with fear.