I'd endorse "Crisis of Conscience" also.
AuldSoul:
Most Witnesses would care, but they don't study their organization's history.
Or they are content with the sanitised and potted version found in the "Proclaimers" book.
Problems/Questions on Practices and Beliefs
by candysearching 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
LittleToe
-
greendawn
Welcome to the forum Candysearching, your husband is absolutely right in leaving the JWs as you can see he has a lot of valid questions that they can not answer. Their real agenda is a hidden one that the ordinary JWs ignore. Keep at a safe distance from them.
-
jeeprube
Welcome to the board Candy! Your conclusions about JW's are correct. Just be thankful you didn't have to spend years in spiritual slavery to figure all of that out. You should encourage your husband to fully research the history of his former religion. Even though he is out now the JW mindset is very powerful, and you have no idea how devestating a ruturn to the organization would be!
-
fahrvegnugen
Why do JWs claim to not celebrate Christmas and/or birthdays, but will accept gifts?
The real answer to this question is that they don't want to be rude or hurt people's feelings.
Why don't JWs celebrate Christmas/birthdays? Is there a reason?
Since Christmas/birthday celebrations originated from pagan (non-Christian) sources, they believe Christians should not partake in them.
-
candysearching
So JWs accept gifts because they don't want to be RUDE? Excuse me, but I think it's rude to give the rest of the world's population so little credit. What person in their right mind would be offended if a JW simply said, "I really appreciate the fact that you thought enough of me to purchase a gift, but since I am one of JWs and do not celebrate Christmas, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to accept." My feelings sure wouldn't be hurt. In fact, I would probably have a much deeper respect for a person who stands by their beliefs no matter who they may possibly remotely offend rather than employ a double standard to appease a person who is obviously not "in the truth". Fear of rudeness sure doesn't come into play when JWs come banging on my door at 8a.m. SATURDAY (off day) morning (no offense to any JWs, just making a point).
Also, I would like to know who does this research on Christmas, and birthdays. Who discovered that they had pagan roots? What about Thanksgiving? Is is a pagan holiday as well? Unless my history books are dead wrong Thanksgiving is NOT a pagan holiday. Do JWs celebrate that? Mothers Day? Father's day? Easter?
Has anyone researched baby showers? Wedding showers? Just about every single custom, tradition, event in American culture could possibly have a hint of paganism involved, right? Did you know that originally (I think) brides wore white not only as a sign of virginity, but also because it was thought that the color white had the power to ward off evil? Do JWs wear white wedding gowns? Certainly JWs do not agree that a color has the power to ward off evil? Wouldn't that be a bit pagan? My point is that you would have to leave EARTH to avoid any hint of paganism.
-
AuldSoul
The real answer to this question is that they don't want to be rude or hurt people's feelings.
Leave it to you to set us straight. LOL! So, they accept what someone gives them to be nice...but don't anything to be spiritual...and you don't see where the one or other is rude and hurts people's feelings? Since they are going to hurt someone's feelings either way, wouldn't it make more since to reject the ENTIRE thing instead of only picking and choosing.
Hmm, why is the blood doctrine leaping to mind?
Since Christmas/birthday celebrations originated from pagan (non-Christian) sources, they believe Christians should not partake in them.
And yet, they engage in pagan ceremonies and overlook the pagan origins of so many other things, even stating in print that the pagan origins are not the important consideration in the matter.
For someone who claims not to be a Watchtower apologist, you have a real knack for apologizing for them.
*** g76 12/22 p. 15 Are They Idolatrous Decorations? ***
With so many different designs having been used in false worship, if a person went to the trouble and took the time he might find an undesirable connection with almost every design he sees around him. But why do that? Would it not be needlessly upsetting? And is that the best use of one’s time and attention?
If a particular design or shape is commonly understood where you live to be a religious symbol, there is good reason to avoid it. Or if many people locally have become especially sensitive about some shape or decoration, the mature Christian might choose to shun it so as to avoid needless disturbance or stumbling. The apostle Paul wisely wrote: “Let us pursue the things making for peace and the things that are upbuilding to one another. It is well not to eat flesh or to drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles.”—Rom. 14:19, 21.
Paul, however, also showed the value of concentrating on the things that are of real importance instead of getting involved in controversy over petty meanings and possible connections that are not of obvious significance. (1 Cor. 10:25, 26; 2 Tim. 2:14, 23) In that way the Christian can concentrate on “righteousness and peace and joy with holy spirit,” which help a person to get to the core of what the kingdom of God means.—Rom. 14:17.*** w92 9/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***
Some customs that were once religious in nature no longer are in many places. For example, the wedding ring once had religious significance, but in most places today, it no longer does. Hence, many true Christians accept the local custom of wearing a wedding ring to give evidence that a person is married. In such matters, what generally is influential is whether a practice is now linked to false religion.—See “Questions From Readers” in The Watchtower of January 15, 1972, and October 15, 1991.The wedding ring was originally an oroborus, a snake eating its own tail, signifying the eternity of the relationship. VERY pagan in origin.
I have an idea. Why don't you conduct a poll asking people why they put up a Christmas tree and see how many give you a reason that has ANYTHING to do with the "pagan origin" of the custom. Try the same with all other celebrations and customs. Then give me an index of which days can be observed in which parts of the world with which decorations without it being considered pagan.
Or we could do it the easy way:
Romans 14:1-12 — Welcome the [man] having weaknesses in [his] faith, but not to make decisions on inward questionings. 2 One [man] has faith to eat everything, but the [man] who is weak eats vegetables. 3 Let the one eating not look down on the one not eating, and let the one not eating not judge the one eating, for God has welcomed that one. 4 Who are you to judge the house servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for Jehovah can make him stand.
5 One [man] judges one day as above another; another [man] judges one day as all others; let each [man] be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day observes it to Jehovah. Also, he who eats, eats to Jehovah, for he gives thanks to God; and he who does not eat does not eat to Jehovah, and yet gives thanks to God. 7 None of us, in fact, lives with regard to himself only, and no one dies with regard to himself only; 8 for both if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. Therefore both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah. 9 For to this end Christ died and came to life again, that he might be Lord over both the dead and the living.
10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you also look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written: “‘As I live,’ says Jehovah, ‘to me every knee will bend down, and every tongue will make open acknowledgment to God.’” 12 So, then, each of us will render an account for himself to God.But [gasp!] that would mean EXERCISING personal conscience without penalty regarding observance of days. Which Jehovah's Witnesses DON'T do, on pain of disfellowshipping.
For someone who doesn't care one way or the other, you seem hell bent on defending the JWs. Taking gifts is honoring the holiday as much as giving gifts. They are clearly being hypocritical in the taking.
AuldSoul
-
AlmostAtheist
>> I would probably have a much deeper respect for a person who stands by their beliefs no matter who they may possibly remotely offend rather than employ a double standard to appease a person who is obviously not "in the truth".
The JW mindset is a complicated one. On the one hand, they know their very existence is offensive. They let their children die for what any non-JW would say is a silly reason. They knock on your door uninvited and tell you your religion is wrong. They deride your holidays, and call every other bible-based religion "false christianity".
Yet, on the other hand, they very much want you to become one of them, so they don't want to "offend" you. Some will take the gifts and the holiday greetings in order not to put you off, in the hopes that you will be interested in a Bible Study later. Others will tell you that they can't accept it -- since it conflicts with their beliefs -- in order to please their god. Either way they go, they're doing something they'd rather not do.
It's a conflicted life style. Constantly balancing and rebalancing this contradictory thing against that. Trying for all the world to live up to a series of contradictory standards. It's tiring, and it leads to guilt and depression.
And yet they want YOU to join them in it! (Did I mention their mindset is a complicated one?)
Dave
-
Apostate Kate
My point is that you would have to leave EARTH to avoid any hint of paganism.
EXACTLY!
Welcome Aboard Candy.
-
candysearching
Ahh,
But do they not realize that any person worth their salt who is searching, is searching for truth, for consistency, for continuity. In order to impress me, you have to be upstanding, and accepting a gift in observance of a holiday that you consider pagan is just wrong. And selfish. I do not believe for one second that JWs accept gifts on Christmas to avoid offending someone. The reason I say that is because most JWs that I have come in contact with are extremely intelligent individuals. I cannot understand any intelligent sane person thinking that respectfully refusing a gift is offensive. I would assume most of the time that the gift-giver is aware that the person they are giving to is a JW. So why would they be offended?
Example: My in laws are JWs. This past Christmas I specifically asked my mother-in-law, "If I buy you something for Christmas, would you be able to accept, or is accepting Christmas gifts against your beliefs?" I asked because I wanted to avoid putting her, or me in a situation where she would have to refuse my gift. She responded, "Oh, well, we don't give gifts, but if you buy me something I won't refuse it."
I gave her an opportunity (before I shoved a pretty package in her face) to say that she couldn't accept. She had no reason at all to think that I would be offended if she had said no. Yet, she said she would accept the gift. Seems to me I had more reason to be afraid of offending her, than she did of offending me.
-
AuldSoul
Example: My in laws are JWs. This past Christmas I specifically asked my mother-in-law, "If I buy you something for Christmas, would you be able to accept, or is accepting Christmas gifts against your beliefs?" I asked because I wanted to avoid putting her, or me in a situation where she would have to refuse my gift. She responded, "Oh, well, we don't give gifts, but if you buy me something I won't refuse it."
My conversation with my wife went pretty much the same way, with a weird little twist at the end: "Just don't wrap it, okay?"
Um, yeah, that darned wrapping paper! Ugh! How pagan can you get... LOL
AuldSoul