People that can condone telling someone "Don't forget; we still have your children!" are godless. They think THEY'RE in control, not a deity.
Frannie (of the JMO class)
Do The WTB&TS Really Believe They Have Truth?
by prophecor 28 Replies latest jw friends
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FairMind
I recall this question or a similar one being asked on this forum before. garybuss made a poignent comment the gist of which was that they didn't believe all of their own teachings as evidenced by the fact that they introduce "new light".
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katiekitten
But I never cease to be amazed at the ability of the human mind to delude itself and suppress doubts.
I absolutely agree with jaffacake. I think they are motivated to believe they are right, and they have deliberately lost the ability to self assess in any meaningful way. I think they honestly think that they are right, and anything that blatantly stands out as wrong they cover with the 'wait on jehovah' mantra. Also the higher they are up the ladder, the more there is to lose, and the more embarrasing it would be to accept 'yes I have totally devoted 30 years of my life to something I knew was a lie'.
I personally find it hard to believe that people would cynically promote something they absolutely knew and accepted was wrong. But thats because I am a basically trusting person. I do think however that they have clever mind games that prevent them from ever having to think about anything being completely wrong - and perhaps thats as bad as blatantly lying.
For example, my father in law has never told the truth to the tax authorities. He lied for years and eventually it caught up with him and he was taken to court and fined thousands of £. However, he lies to himself in his mind about the whole issue, and so if you ask him about it hes not really lying to you in the strictest sense because he honestly believes his own lies. He thinks hes telling the truth as it exists in his own mind. Even if you were asking him from the point of view of saying 'I want to fiddle my taxes and I need you to tell me how to do it or not to do it' he wouldnt be able to acknowledge that he had lied about his tax.
Bryan, id like to think they couldnt sleep at night, but I honestly think thats not the case. I think people lie to themselves in order to make life possible for themselves. They will live and die believing their own clever delusions!
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Mary
It's hard to say.......in CoC, Ray describes that one of the GB at that time admitted he had serious doubts about 1914. As the present Governing Body has known for over 30 years that Jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 BCE, but knowingly LIE to the R&F and tell them that this date is correct, well..........either they're blind as a bat, or they know that many of their doctrines are not right, but they don't want to change.
The Pharisees also believed they had "the Truth" and got royally pissed off when their lies, arrogance and deceitful nature was exposed by Jesus. Did the Pharisees still believe they were right, even when exposed as being wrong? As far as we know they did. In fact, today's Orthodox Judaism stems directly from the Pharisees' teachings as this was the only group of Jewish leaders that survived when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70CE.
When it comes to chosing power or truth, power generally wins.
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Gregor
In 1983 I had the opportunity to ask Ray Franz personally if he thought the GB was sincere or simply conniving manipulators. He didn't hesitate to answer that many of them were the latter, but that some of the older men were sincere but easily led into decisions of policy and doctrine.
Rays' uncle, Fred Franz, as you know, was the real source of most all JW doctrine and he took them out on a limb several times, ala the 1975 'prophecy'. That bombshell, released in 1966, was of course built on the bedrock doctrine of 1914. That is when Nathan Knorr made the revealing statement to the effect "we have a lot riding on 1914, I hope we're right about that".
It all reminds me of that passage in Isaiah (?) that was pointing up the stupidity of the pagans who cut down a tree and then used some of the wood to cook their food and the rest to build an idol to worship!
Or the old saying that if you watched the sausage being made you would never eat it.
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Frannie Banannie
It all reminds me of that passage in Isaiah (?) that was pointing up the stupidity of the pagans who cut down a tree and then used some of the wood to cook their food and the rest to build an idol to worship!
It's either Jeremiah, Chapter 5 or Ch 10, but it's really a metaphor for a book, the "leaves" in a book, decorated with engraved (printer's engraving) images. Some of the scriptures are those who wrote it's own "cooked food" (brain food/words) and some of it depicts what/whom to worship.
Frannie
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greendawn
They are indeed Pharisees, if they believe that something is a lie and then go on to present it as a truth they are hypocrites. And hypocrites can justify everything with their devious reasonings, or theocratic lying. They just don't want to dig for the truth.
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katiekitten
In 1983 I had the opportunity to ask Ray Franz personally if he thought the GB was sincere or simply conniving manipulators. He didn't hesitate to answer that many of them were the latter,
Thats a fascinating insight, Gregor, and exactly the question I would have wanted to ask him. And a really interesting answer. I think I am too trusting.
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Pole
Q: Do The WTB&TS Really Believe They Have Truth?
A: Sure, most of them do. Since they made up their own notion of "THE TRUTH" (Armageddon, Paradise, Great Crowd, The remnant, 1914, Jehovah's Kingdom, etc.) and there is nobody around claiming their right to it (who needs it anyway?), they have no choice but believe they have it.
Pilate's question has yet to be properly answered.
Pole