JUST HOW GULLIBLE ARE YOU? DO YOU LIKE IT THAT WAY? (page 3)

Rooster

The TRUTH for a JW is different from an ex JW.
A JW wants to believe what the Watchtower Society tell them no matter how contrary it might be to fact.
An ex JW wants to be told the facts no matter how contrary it might be to the Watchtower Society.
And they call us, the Apostates, the ones who are evil?
We are apostates to fantasy. We are apostates to mind-control. We are apostates to a manufactured world-view. We are apostates to counterfeit reality.
T.

WTBTS They are the ones that have deviated from following Jesus Christ as He instructed.

Terry

puple sofa said: It's all a matter of perception isn't it? and personal opinion. Who is the expert

I would make a distinction.

Opinion is a matter of personal taste and preference.

But, fact is not. We are entitled to our own opinion and not our own facts.

This, of course, is the difference between what is subjective on the one hand and what is obective on the other.

How we "feel" about a dress or a sunset doesn't impinge on fact at all.

Being cynical doesn't make life NO FUN. It limits the price we pay for the fun we have.

Example:

Fooling ourself that we can afford something we cannot.

Fooling ourself that we love somebody when they aren't worthy of that love or our trust.

Fooling ourself that what we do today doesn't provide a template for the price we pay tomorrow.

Being cynical is a way of taste-testing our life BEFORE we pay for a bite of it. Do you buy a car without driving it first? No.

Being cynical is not over-paying for a happy moment by doing the research into value.

The bad press inherent in cynicism is due to the fact that the person who leaves the party isn't appreciated by the drunks who will have hangovers the next morning.

Credit cards have rates. The cynic demands the lowest rate or pays cash. The romanticist/fanticist charges anything their heart desires and lets tomorrow take care of itself.

Whose bills would you rather pay?

That is what it comes down to in my view.

I'm sure you are every bit as intelligent as I am. This is probably just a discussion of terms we are having and not world views.

Terry

WTBTS They are the ones that have deviated from following Jesus Christ as He instructed

How often did Paul quote Jesus?

Terry

There is a big difference between Paul & the WTBTS. Christ Jesus personally visited Paul. Paul was part of the establishing of Christianity and thus had Gods spirit directing him. Now that Christianity has been established it would be wrong to teach such things as "Jesus Christ did not receive Kingship of His kingdom until 1914"!

Can you agree on this?

Terry

There is a big difference between Paul & the WTBTS. Christ Jesus personally visited Paul. Paul was part of the establishing of Christianity and thus had Gods spirit directing him. Now that Christianity has been established it would be wrong to teach such things as "Jesus Christ did not receive Kingship of His kingdom until 1914"!
Can you agree on this?

Paul claimed Jesus personally appeared to him. We have to take his word for it without any proof. That is exactly

the sort of claim a gullible person accepts without hesitation. What we call Christianity today is the invention of men such as Paul.

Every so often Christianity morphs. It is shaped by the hands of persuasive men who make claims as to their authority and connection with Jesus. Frequently, the morphing is done in reaction to the excesses of others in authority.

Judaism morphed constantly due to reactions and re-reactions within it to powerful men claiming divine connections.

But, this is so little different from the Watchtower Society that is doesn't take genius to see it.

Jehovah's Witnesses were formed by men who were sincere and who got caught up in END TIMES predictions. They were as wrong as wrong can be and it did not faze them one little bit! The entire theological stance of Jehovah's Witnesses is the result of reactionism and hubris.

The JW's reacted to Christendom and became contrarians in every way they could. Christendom embraced Jesus and took the "christ" part of it upon themselves as his representation on earth. JW's reacted by taking Jehovah's name instead. Tit for tat.

None of us can deny that Christianity is a shattered mirror with shards everywhere reflecting this and that opinion.

People pick and choose which particular reflection of their own personal taste they will avow to be TRUTH.

Christianity is a salad bar. Each person grabs a plate and cherry picks what suits their own fancy. They are commited to defending their choices if challenged by exclaiming how delicious it is.

Paul was a clever man who told people (whatever group he was with) what they wanted to hear combined with stern admonitions to not forsake the fabulous prizes awaiting them if they didn't stray far from ( Paul's version) orthodoxy.

You see, this Jesus is coming back SOON!

But, he didn't. Or did he?

It is all a mess, really.

Terry

AlmostAtheist

Terry,

I have had to come to grips with the fact that I am gullible. I believe this to be inherent with me. I can't stop being gullible, but I can put filters in front of my gullibility so the end result is as if I were not so gullible.

Whene I hear something -- anything at all -- I look for the motive behind it. Even if a motive is given, I look for others. Especially if the person telling this to me is trying to support their notion of the motive.

Examples:

"He said it right in front of everybody, just to embarrass me!"

It's unlikely that the person speaking did so for the sole purpose of embarrassing my friend. Something probably underlies this story. I don't care, and probing will only upset my friend, so I probably won't pursue it. Nor will I let my impression of the other guy be formed by the story.

"I was passed over for promotion because the other guy goes to ball games with the boss and I don't."

Maybe. Or maybe he's better than you at the job. All things considered, that's the more likely scenario.

I don't think you need to VOICE your skepticism, but you need to have it. To keep your own mind from being polluted with false "facts". That's how I combat my gullibility.

(BTW, gullible IS in the dictionary, so stop sending me all those pm's saying it's not! I'm not checking again! [25 times is enough])

Dave

JamesThomas

Terry:

Christianity is a salad bar. Each person grabs a plate and cherry picks what suits their own fancy. They are commited to defending their choices if challenged by exclaiming how delicious it is.

So true. Often we are presented with a sugar sweet piece of Jesus' "unconditional love", with no mention of the poison of punishment, death and destruction, lurking just beneath the micro-thin frosting? I can only imagine the vast majority of people who embrace Christianity harbor love far greater than that of the idea of god they worship; yet even the actuality of their own love does not disturb them from their slumber. What hope is there for you, Terry?

j

AlmostAtheist

I can only imagine the vast majority of people who embrace Christianity harbor love far greater than that of the idea of god they worship;

It's worse than that. They can become assimilated into the mindset of their God and actually lose the love they started with. (What person would consider shunning his daughter prior to becoming a JW? What person would consider denigrating those with differing sexuality prior to adopting the anti-homosexual views of a god?)

A god they gullibly accept is represented by whatever holy book their guru is carrying.

Dave

Rooster

Terry if a spirit creature visited you and spoke with you often would you believe that this creature existed even though you could not provide proof?

Balsam

Up until about 7 years ago I was extremely gullible and trusting. When people said something to me I figured they were telling me the truth. Until I was shown they were lying to me I trusted them. I was burned by people and even a few JW over the years. But over all I continued to trust and be down right gullible. Of course JW women have to be if they want to be in line with JW policy.

Even my JW husband said I was a foolish airhead. He was right, first of all I believed him and didn't want to believe he would hurt me until he started hitting me, and running around on me. The WTS encouraged women to be submissive, and obedient and I was all those things. But like a kicked dog I finally got some teeth and bite back. No one was more surprised than my husband and the Elders when I refused to be submissive anymore.

I read everything I could of self help books, and learning to reason and quit being so trusting. Perhaps as a Kid I was just treated so well and believed the best of humankind I found it hard to think anyone would want to lie to me or hurt me. I wasn't raised a JW and came from a loving emotionally health family. I wasn't taught to be distrusting, so I made a perfect candidate to be pulled into the cult religion. I did a little research, but not any that really made me think.

I've changed a lot, now I don't trust anyone without some evidence they are trust worth. I have to say that my new husband had continued to help me more critical of those I meet. I can honestly say I'm not gullible anymore. My sweet husband says now I have backbone. I've had to stand my ground against my ex-jw-husband to keep him from taking me to the cleaners when we divorced. I've had to stand up for my kids against the religion I raised them in. I have teeth now and I do bite. No more cult control, no more abusive men in my life. Life is good finally and its good not being anyones doormat anymore.

Good topic Terry, good to see you on here again. Have missed your comments when you were absent.

Balsam

JUST HOW GULLIBLE ARE YOU? DO YOU LIKE IT THAT WAY?

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