JWs an adventist offshoot?

greendawn

Isn't it correct to describe the JWs as an adventist offshoot and therefore part of the wider protestant world? They obviously have no connection to the apostolicc church despite their claims. For example they got the 1914 date and the just once a year ritual of the bread and wine from the adventists so where do they really belong?

jaffacake

Hi

I was mistaken in my memory about the annual memorial. Another adventist reminded me it was quarterly for adventists.

However, JWs have adopted many many adventist beliefs, eg just falling asleep when we die...until resurrected. Actually, in my research I have yet to find any teaching that originated or is exclusive to Jws, but shhh...that's their best kept secret which they perpetuate by ensuring their flock lead a very sheltered life.

They are also influenced by Christadelphians, and by the 4the century heresy of Arianism. But yes their heritage is Protestant, except they started hating all other branches Christian religion after Rutherford's coup to take over.

Siddhashunyata

I believe both Russel and Rutherford were Congregationalists.. I have been able to understand most of what's gone on by researching the Millerites , Adventism, and Congregationalism. Congregationalism relates to Calvinism (Puritans). Amazingly, as late as the 1940's the book "Children" ( Rutherford) used a dialog between two young Puritans to establish that it is not a good idea to have children before the "New System". The hard ass spirit is definitely Calvin.

garybuss

It's a little hard to read Russell's work and separate him from the Second Advent Christian movement. Charles Russell was barely cold in his grave until Rutherford turned a religious association into a political activist group. It was political activity, not religion, that got Rutherford and his directors thrown in Federal prison.
I think it was incredibly clever for a political party to deny it's political and claim to be a religion.
It's been political activity, not religion, that's gotten the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation in trouble with world governments.
Jehovah's Witnesses think politics IS religion. They think medicine, employment, and entertainment is religion too.

jaffacake

And yet Calvin, theologian, taught not to trust in any theologian. Calvin would turn in his grave at Calvinism. He was just another guy who thought he was doing the right thing according to his own modern interpretation of scriptures.

cabasilas

The first part of this webpage shows the Adventist (Second Adventist, not 7th Day Adventist) background of Russell's movement:

http://www.catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/jwhistory.html

The Second Adventists and the 7th Day Adventists were the two largest of the groups who descended from the Millerite movement.

jaffacake

Previous Watchtower Belief & Background (eg where did 1914 come from?)

Is it true that for nearly half a century, (1879 to the late 1920s) the time prophecies published by the Watchtower Society were contrary to all current beliefs, and only after the signs and predictions about 1914 failed to come true, were new and different dates and times assigned to each one.

From what I learned as an Adventist in my teens I know that these time prophecies were taught to CT Russell by the Second Adventists, but they had got them from John Aquila Brown, who first published the method and calculation in 1823 (29 years before Russell was born).

The practice of applying “a year for a day” formula to Bible time periods was first done in the first Century, by Jewish rabbis. By the 9 th century, a succession of rabbis began making calculations and predictions for the time periods of 1,290, 1,335, and 2,300 days found in Daniel’s prophecy (but they applied their results to the appearance of the Messiah).

The practice started amongst professed Christians in the 12 th century with the Roman Catholic abbot, Joachim of Floris who also used the “year for a day” method to the 1,260 days mentioned in Revelation (11:3 & 12:6). Many dates started to be predicted eg 1260, then 1364, then a spate in the 16 th century. Through the decades and centuries, as one date after another passed without the foretold events taking place, changes, either to the dates, or to the interpretations of events, became necessary.

Breakthrough?

Then eventually, a breakthrough (or coincidence?). In 1796 George Bell predicted the fall of the Antichrist (in his view the Pope) in either 1797 or 1813. Shortly after this prediction the Pope was taken captive by the French and forced into exile. This was seen as a remarkable fulfilment of Bible prophecy proving that 1798 was the end of the prophetic 1,260 days and 1799 marked the beginning of the “last days”.

In 1823 John Aquila Brown published that 1844 would mark the end of the 2,300 days of Daniel. Second Adventist pioneer, William Miller supported this conclusion. Brown also originated the interpretation of “seven times” in Daniel 4 that gave the 2,520 years still used today by the Watchtower Society and several other religious groups. This method was first published in 1823, 29 years before CT Russell was born and 47 years before he began his independent Bible study group.

All these facts were uncovered in research during the 1970s by a respected Jehovah’s Witness elder and scholar, and were brought to the attention of the Governing Body. The same elder also presented overwhelming evidence that the 1914 date was in error by 20 years, but for some reason the Governing Body decided to stand by the dates already widely published. However, the details of the origins of the 1914 date were published by outside sources in

If these time prophecies and dates, had been around for so long, I wonder how do JWs think they originate with Jehovah’s Witnesses & the Watchtower?

After failed expectations about 1844, the Adventists split into several groups each predicting new dates for Christ’s return. One of them, N H Barbour used the Brown method but used 606BC as the starting point & came up with an ending of 1914 for the “end of the gentile times”. (mis-calculated as this is only 2,519 years not 2,520) Adventist Barbour published these dates in 1873 and by 1878 Russell had joined Barbour and become assistant editor of the Adventist “Herald of the Morning”.

In the Watchtower of Russell tells the story. Before meeting Barbour he had despised time prophecies, but after a visit from Barbour he changed his mind. Thereafter time prophecies dominated Russell’s writings and those of the Watchtower he founded.

Both Barbour and Russell taught:

The key date of 1874 marked the end of 6000 years of human history. But the year turned out to be just another date that passed without incident, but then another Adventist B W Keith noticed one version of Scripture could be translated Christ’s “presence” instead of His “coming” so they “knew” their date was correct but reasoned that his presence to carry out judging work in 1874 was invisible. Other Christians were sure the date was false, simply because of Christ’s teachings. However, an invisible presence was, and is, a difficult thing for genuine Christians to disprove.

From reading Watchtower publications it appears that for nearly 50 years the Watchtower leadership, in their role as “prophet”, heralded that the invisible presence of Christ began in 1874. They were still teaching this in 1929, fifteen years after even the 1914 date. So they were not "on the watch in 1914 - why would they be if he had already returnrd? It seems that for decades they also believed and published the following:

Christ’s kingdom rule began & fall of in 1878
the last days began in 1799
resurrection of the anointed in 1881 (“fall” ie Autumn)
harvest would run from 1874 to 1914
destruction of all human institutions & ’s complete destruction in 1914 or 1918

All these were based on “parallels” from Scriptural ages. In 2,000 years has one visible prediction come true?

WT15 June 1911

“…these parallels we find 1874 as the beginning of this harvest…1878…when rejected…October 1914…will witness the full end of …”

WT Book “The Time is at Hand”

“we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end…will be reached in 1914”. Russell had predicted world-wide trouble, not later than 1905 or 1907.

Predictions were “established truths” and “will be accomplished by 1914” “we present proofs” “…close of that battle is definitely marked in Scripture as 1914, its beginning dating from October 1874.” “we see no reason for changing the figures…nor could we…God’s dates, not ours…but bear in mind 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the trouble”.

Many years later, after more failed predictions about 1918, 1920, 1925, the 1940s and 1975, the problem was addressed in Awake magazine:

Awake page 3 “Why So Many False Alarms”

“when their words do not come true, they should not be viewed as false prophets such as those warned against in Deuteronomy 18:20-22. In their human fallibility they misinterpreted matters”.

My question, how does the Watchtower Society’s record of interpreting or misinterpreting matters compare with other Christian groups?

“But the prophet who shall speak a word presumptuously in my name which I have not commanded him to speak…that prophet shall die. And you may say in your heart, ‘how shall we know the Word which the Lord has not spoken?’ When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken presumptuously. You shall not be afraid of him.” (Deuteronomy 18:20-22)

In the case of each mistake, had the Watchtower Society leadership claimed to speak in God’s name? (“God’s dates, not ours” “established truth” “proved”).

Lessons Learned?

C. T. Russell died in 1916 leaving behind a legacy of time prophecies, not one of which had brought the foretold results.

In the 1930 book ‘Light 1’ page 194

“The Lord’s people looked forward to 1914…When that time came and passed there was much disappointment, chagrin and mourning, and the Lord’s people were greatly in reproach. They were ridiculed…and pointed to with scorn because they had said so much about 1914, and what would come to pass, and their ‘prophecies’ had not been fulfilled.”

In 1916, shortly before his death, C. T. Russell wrote the forward to a new edition of “The Time is at Hand”

“…this was a natural mistake to fall into, but the Lord overruled it…the thought that …all gathered to glory by 1914, certainly did have a stimulating and sanctifying effect upon thousands, all of whom accordingly can praise the Lord – even for the mistake”

My conscience troubles me to read such words, which implicate the Lord in what were clearly serious human errors.

All this was a long time ago and errors have been acknowledged, so why should it be at all relevant to me today? The answer is that we must learn from our mistakes. There is also the question of the Watchtower Society’s understanding, and divine authority.

In 1916 did the publishers of the dates recognise that they were not “God’s dates” but human speculation?

Was there any justification for Russell to find such merit in the false predictions? Seeing merit in error, not only seems unscriptural, but could it have helped to encourage or justify more erroneous human speculation in the future.

“Woe to those who are saying that good is bad and bad is good, and

those who are putting darkness for light and light for darkness, those

who are putting bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.” (Isa 5:20)

Nathan Natas

That is a magnificent summary, Jaffacake!

I would only ask that you be a bit more precise about your references (year of publication, page from which the citation is taken and that you use

quote blocks

so we can tell which are your comments and which are part of the quote.

But those are minor points. Well done!

cabasilas

Just a clarification:

Russell taught the resurrection of the anointed was in 1878, not 1881. See:

http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/kingdomcome/study9.html

What is even more interesting is to realize that Russell taught that Christ had actually returned to the earth in 1874, but invisibly. When the Bride of Christ was raised in 1878, they were not raised to heavenly life. They were raised to be with Christ here on earth since that was where he was at.

It wasn't until Rutherford's era where the Society started teaching that Christ never left heaven at his return. That was in about the 1920s when they started teaching a metaphorical return: "Jesus turned his attention to the earth."

Imagine all those anointed invisibly resurrected to walk the earth to be with Christ from 1878 until the 1920s and then to find out they had been dead until 1918 and were raised to heavenly life!

Talk about bizarre.

Forscher

Although Russell denied in his writings any real debt to the Second Adventists, I believe it can be said that the JW's are an offshoot from the advent movement with a little evangelical influence thrown in curtesy of Rutherford, who was raised a Baptist. Certainly ley he owed much to George Storrs and Stetson, Second Adventists, despite his denial. Even the WTBTS acknowledged that debt to some extent in the "Proclaimers" book.
Forscher

JWs an adventist offshoot?

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