1John 5:7

Kristofer

1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Is this verse completely merged with verse 8 in the NWT? How is this overlooked? Does anyone have any input? Sounds pretty Trinitarian to me.

skyman

I went and looked at the Zondervan Parallel New Testament In Greek and English It is a diaglot and I was surprized to see it is correct to say the three are one. It actually say's this; *7: Because three there are the bearing witness, *8:the Spirit and the water and the blood, and the three in the one are.

When I look at the actual translation into English I do not see the Father and the Word and the Holy Ghost. The bible you are using is not translating the scripture correctly.

skyman

I use the Dioglot mention above all the time and I also have at least five translations beside my computer that I look every scripture up in to see if what I read agrees with the actual bible.

MerryMagdalene

I'm no Bible scholar at all, but Robertson's Word Pictures says this:

1Jo 5:7
-
For there are three who bear witness
(

hoti treis eisin hoi marturountes ). At this point the Latin Vulgate gives the words in the Textus Receptus, found in no Greek MS. save two late cursives (162 in the Vatican Library of the fifteenth century, 34 of the sixteenth century in Trinity College, Dublin). Jerome did not have it. Cyprian applies the language of the Trinity and Priscillian has it. Erasmus did not have it in his first edition, but rashly offered to insert it if a single Greek MS. had it and 34 was produced with the insertion, as if made to order. The spurious addition is: en to¯i ourano¯i ho pate¯r , ho logos kai to hagion pneuma kai houtoi hoi treis hen eisin kai treis eisin hoi marturountes en te¯i ge¯i (in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth). The last clause belongs to 1Jo_5:8 . The fact and the doctrine of the Trinity do not depend on this spurious addition. Some Latin scribe caught up Cyprian’s exegesis and wrote it on the margin of his text, and so it got into the Vulgate and finally into the Textus Receptus by the stupidity of Erasmus.

Shazard

I gue Marry describes more or less correctly how this got into NT

knothead34

In the book misquoting jesus, it says that the scribe Erasmus left that part out(the father,the word, the spirit) because he said that he did not find them in any of the text. The theologians got mad and claimed that he purposely left them out to disprove the trinity. He told them that if they could find a greek text that had it in there, that he would include it in future editions. They falsely "produced" the text in greek so Erasmus put it in. This edition eventually was used to produce the King James Version of the Bible. Many other bibles besides the NWT leave that part out only a few leave it in.

greendawn

There are verses that are not found in the original ancient texts and that is considered to be among them, it's a later addition.

TD

It's called the "Johannine Comma." (I really, really wish this board supported a greek font)

"For there are three that bear record [in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth ], the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

These extra words only appear in the text of four late medieval manuscripts. Their origin seems to have been a marginal note added to some Latin manuscripts during the middle ages.

In the Clementine edition of the Vulgate the verses were printed thus:

Quoniam tres sunt, qui testimonium dant [in caelo: Pater, Verbum, et Spiritus Sanctus: et hi tres unum sunt. 8 Et tres sunt, qui testimonium dant in terra:] spiritus, et aqua, et sanguis: et hi tres unum sunt.

From the Vulgate, the Comma found it's way into a handful of late Greek manuscripts. All scholars consider it to be spurious, and it is not included in modern critical editions of the Greek text, or in the English versions based upon them.

You'll only find it in older English Bibles based on obsolete Greek texts like the King James and the Geneva Bible.

TD

Two other places I've found the Comma are Neofytos Vamvas' Modern Greek Bible (1850) and the Rheims NT (Which is not surprising since it is a translation of the Vulgate)

Kristofer

you guys have been awesome. Very knowledgable. What do you think is the most accurate biblical translation of the New Testament?

1John 5:7

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