Revelation 12:1

Honesty

Who is this woman?

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and a crown of 12 stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in labor and agony to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven: There was a great fiery red dragon having seven heads and 10 horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. His tail swept away a third of the stars in heaven and hurled them to the earth. And the dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she did give birth he might devour her child. But she gave birth to a Son—a male who is going to shepherd all nations with an iron scepter —and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.

The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, in the Revelation - Its Grand Climax publication claims that she represents Jehovah's wifely organisation. In other words, they claim it is themselves.

In reality, who does she represent?

Kaput

The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, in the Revelation - Its Grand Climax publication claims that she represents Jehovah's wifely organisation. In other words, they claim it is themselves.
In reality, who does she represent?

Whatsamatta? Ya don't believe 'em? O ye of little faith!

Honesty

Whatsamatta? Ya don't believe 'em? O ye of little faith!

I did until... I found out about them.

Leolaia

First of all, it should be recognized the woman in the vision is an element from the original Greek myth that the author is adapting here. This is the myth of the dragon Python which was sent to chase and destroy the pregnant Leto and her unborn children. Poseidon helped her find sanctuary in Delos, where her twin children Apollo and Artemis were born. Then later Apollo fought the dragon and killed it at Delphi (where Apollo's oracle was established). This would not be the only allusion to this myth in the NT; it also lies behind the reference to a Delphi priestess in Acts. In its adaptation in Revelation, Apollo = the Messiah child and Python = Satan the Devil. Because it is the woman who gives birth to the Messiah figure, she was identified with Mary of Nazareth by some early exegetes. It is noteworthy that the conflict between the dragon and the woman and her seed in 12:13, 17 evokes Genesis 3:15, and Mary was sometimes interpreted as the "New Eve". From a Jewish perspective, however, the woman would represent Israel (cf. the allusion to Genesis 37:9 in 12:1, and the parallel in Testament of Naphtali 5:4, and also Israel as a pregnant mother in Micah 4:9-10, Isaiah 66:7), or the Church in the Christian view (cf. Hippolytus, Methodius, and the figure of the aged women in Hermas as representing the ancient Church). The Society's interpretation seems to be dependent on the older Christian view that the woman represents the Church. I think the importance of the woman lies in her contrast to the "woman" in ch. 17-18, Babylon the Great. The latter is based on Roman mythology as well, picturing the patron goddess of Rome as a gaudy harlot. The goddess Roma, in addition to being represented as seated on the seven hills of Rome, was represented as the she-wolf that fed Remus and Romulus, the founders of Rome (i.e. as their mother). In Revelation, the Devil uses the leadership of Rome (i.e. the Beast) to establish his own authority on the earth, while Christ's authority is established through his Church which the Devil tries to destroy (cf. 12:17). The goddess Roma is then seen as an unholy imitation of the true "mother" of the persecuted people of God.

Honesty

That's interesting.

Another interesting item is that there is another place where the sun, moon and stars are mentioned that portrays the nation of Israel.

MerryMagdalene

Interesting (as always, Leolaia)...I have to say it would make more sense to me to see Israel as the mother-source of the Messiah (through Mary) than thinking that the Church he founded was somehow his mother Since the Goddess Roma was alluded to as the "harlot", could the Holy Spirit be considered the "woman," in contrast, do you think?

~Merry

Leolaia

Yeah, that would be Genesis 37:9. But not just this text, but in some respects Testament of Naphtali 5:3-4 is closer to Revelation 12:1: "Levi seized the sun and Judah, outstripping the others, grasped the moon....And Judah became luminous like the moon and twelve rays were under his feet."

jwfacts

Go Leolaia, I haven't seen one of these great answers from you for a while.

I am reading "The hero with a thousand faces" by Joseph Campbell and bought an encyclopedia on all the Gods of mythology from all the major religions. It is riveting reading. Do you have any sources of your research that you recommend me looking at?

Leolaia

Merry...Correct about the Church, but bear in mind that various Christians saw the Church as true Israel and often blurred the two. The woman in ch. 12 is seen in mythological terms, and the identification of Mary with this woman offered one site for developing Mary as a mythological figure along the lines of Leto in Greek myth and Isis in Egyptian myth (cf. Hippolytus especially). Interesting thought about the Holy Spirit, because the H.S. is ultimately rooted in a mythological female mother figure (Asherah), but I doubt much of this was still latent by the late first century; Hellenistic ideas of feminine Wisdom/Sophia were much more evident, tho these certainly develop a native Jewish concept of Asherah as the source of wisdom (cf. the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge in Genesis 2-3).

Leolaia

jwfacts.....I've been busy with work, job interviews, and some depression from striking out....

I would recommend Aune's three-volume commentary as the best work out there on Revelation. His analysis of the actual background of the harlot of Babylon in Revelation as the goddess Roma (worshipped especially in Asia Minor cities like Smyrna) is unrivalled.

(LOL, there was just a Cialis commercial on just now, and they used the word "priapism," now there's Greek mythology living on in another way...)

Revelation 12:1

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