by cr1234 55 Replies latest watchtower bible
and there is the spiritual aspect, where the Creator of life is taken into account. The manner in which a Christian would deal with having a baby shower would put emphasis on the sacredness of life.
I was a JW for over 20 years and in all that time I have never been to a JW baby shower where Jehovah or the sacredness of life was mentioned. It was always a typical fun event with presents, games, food and cake.
Honestly Schism, I am not asking out of sarcasm or anything like that. Do you truly believe and stand behind the defense of the forbidding of birthdays that you are presenting here? Do you think it's 100%? 50%? How strongly do you feel about it?
My birthday document addresses your points, I think. Would you be willing to read it over and respond to the points that you've mentioned?
http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html
Dave
For mature Christians, that makes it a spiritual matter formost.
I know that unless I correct a misspelled word, the above will likely be misunderstood. I wouldn't dare try and edit the other post, because it always messes up the format.
Anyway, this is it corrected, in all its glory:
For mature Christians, that makes it a spiritual matter foremost..
and there is the spiritual aspect, where the Creator of life is taken into account. The manner in which a Christian would deal with having a baby shower would put emphasis on the sacredness of life.I was a JW for over 20 years and in all that time I have never been to a JW baby shower where Jehovah or the sacredness of life was mentioned. It was always a typical fun event with presents, games, food and cake.
I think you're being hardheaded, Saoirse. Having attended a "JW baby shower," you were among people whom you already knew appreciated the sacredness of life.
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Do you truly believe and stand behind the defense of the forbidding of birthdays that you are presenting here? Do you think it's 100%? 50%? How strongly do you feel about it?
I don't have any beliefs that I'm not 100% convinced of, Dave.
My birthday document addresses your points, I think. Would you be willing to read it over and respond to the points that you've mentioned?http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html
Dave
As a matter of fact, I copied the document yesterday and put it into my personal files for future reference. I didn't know that you were the author of that. I commend you for a well put together document, except where it falls short of taking the most important aspects into consideration. I'll have to take another look at it, after which I may have more to say.
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*** w98 10/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
"Consequently, while it is entirely a private matter if Christians choose to take note of their wedding anniversary, there are good reasons why mature Christians abstain from celebrating birthdays."
Notice it Say's MATURE CHRISTIANS. This canme up in my congregation, There was a sister that quit going to the meetings she was married to a non-believer, her husband demanded that she celebrated their kids birthday. Her mom brought this up to the Elders. I went and talked to her and asked her why, she celebrated birthday's. We did not know what to do because we did not want to cause her any problems because she was hurting no one, but her mom was stumbled so we had to do something the C.O. was called and he quoted the above MAg. He said the article mean just what it Say's, she had the right to celebrate her kids birthday and if she started back in she would be considered weak not mature. He said any brother that celebrated birthday's would not be give any special privileges.
SO IT IS NOT DF'ING OFFENSE
The birthday position is possibly one of the few JW doctrinal claims that's on even shakier ground than their blood policy. No where in the Bible will you find "Thou shalt not celebrate your birthday". NOt one place. This JW rule is not based on the Bible at all. It is simply an invention, yet another attempt to keep JWs apart from outsiders by erecting a wall. There's no meaningful justification at all, other than as a group separation and control device.
WEddings are "of the world". Anniversaries are "of the world". Baby showers are "of the world". Sneakers are "of the world". Toyotas are "of the world". Dollars are "of the world". The list of things that are "of the world" that JWs participate in are rather enormous, so to pick birthdays out as being wrong when, say, baby showers are not is both hypocritical and completely illogical. It simply makes no sense. It has no justification in the Bible. It is a pure invention, and a demonstration of why any church whose theological system boils down to "we're the boss, do what we say or God will get you" is ludicrous and dangerous to its adherents. At least a Catholic or Anglican position is based upon centuries of regularized and scholarly theological study, and not unfounded proclamations from afar.
Ah yes, the old bait and switch. "You can't celebrate birthdays, but we'll look the other way if you pick some other day." Even if your doctrinal position is correct, which it so clearly isn't (as your argument amounts to the most absurd handwaving and hair splitting), then picking other days is simply violating the spirit of your doctrine.
As a matter of fact, I copied the document yesterday and put it into my personal files for future reference. I didn't know that you were the author of that. I commend you for a well put together document, except where it falls short of taking the most important aspects into consideration. I'll have to take another look at it, after which I may have more to say.
Schizm--
I look forward to your response. The excellent read captured my attention last year as a lurker.
Maybe you'll even save it to your 'favorites' list of sites, as I did.
