do you think that JW are brainwashed?

by notmyself 49 Replies latest jw experiences

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  stillajwexelder

  BTW welcome to the board notmyself
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  steve2

  I think everyone is brainwashed - we just have to choose our favourite soap brand.

  I agree with the above quote. If JWs were really brainwashed, we would not see the continued exodus of members from the organization. The fact that hard-core JWs are prepared to shun close family members at all costs simply reflects how rigidly some people choose to adhere to their religious beliefs.

  Across witnesses, there may be a dull uniformity in verbal expression of beliefs, but there is huge variation in the extent to which witnesses actively adhere to the letter of the law regarding JW doctrine and policy. We all know numerous so-called JWs who are anything but JWs. At the other extreme, we all know a hard-core of JWs who live and breathe the religion and nothing else - this latter group are a relative minority among the witnesses!

  No, the witnesses are not brain-washed. Their imprisonment is largely of their own choosing - which is not to say, they think they have much choice! But the world is crammed full of people who don't think they have much choice for one reason or another.
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  Highlander

  Would they drink the 'koolaid'? Probably not. But that doesn't change the fact it's an extremely high control group, or cult, depending on your definition of the word.

  Previous posters stated independent thinking is prohibited. That's definitely an understatement. Any JW can be banished for independent thinking and in this regards I think

  the JW's are a high control group, almost a cult.
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  Midget-Sasquatch

  I'm not a fan of that word but the WTS has been shown to employ several behavioural conditioning and thought reform techniques typically associated with "brainwashing". To what extent individuals respond and allow themselves to be conditioned though, is variable.
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  seattleniceguy

  I have to strongly disagree with those who have suggested that everyone is brainwashed. As Dave pointed out, to use the word in this way makes it meaningless. Qcmbr seemed to suggest that culture is also necessarily a form of brainwashing, but I disagree with this as well.

  Fundamentally, it comes down to one's ability and willingness to consider opposing information and viewpoints. As Qcmbr pointed out, cultures can discourage independent thought, and as such, they may be considered guilty to some degree of brainwashing. Consider the government of North Korea, which bombards its people with propaganda from a single source (itself) and highly restricts their access to any other views. This is definitely a culture that contains brainwashing elements.

  Similarly, we are exposed to various different cultures in different parts of our life: our family culture, our work culture, and our religious group culture (if any). These cultures create social situations that influence whether we feel free to examine opposing information and change our views if necessary. Any culture that restricts this starts moving over toward the "brainwashing" end of the spectrum.

  But surely not all cultures are the same. A liberal protestant is surely more ready to consider opposing information that a hard-core JW. An agnostic in America might be more able and willing to challenge his views than a devout member of the Communist party in North Korea.

  It is my personal mantra that I should always be ready to consider other information, and if necessary, change my viewpoints. In fact, when I do, it's spectacular, because it means I have gained even better viewpoints than I had previously, as I only change my views when they fit the available facts even better than my current ones do. In this, I am confident that I am no longer under anyone's brainwashing, even if I do have to contend (as we all do) with old assumptions and cultural conditioning.

  Just my thoughts.

  SNG
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  steve2

  Brain-washing is simply an extreme form of "influencing" others to adhere to a belief system and seems to work best within closed groups. The trouble is, even in closed groups, people have access to alternate information of one sort or another and, if they choose, they can access that information. We on this discussion board are "proof" that we were not literally brainwashed. We got out, albeit with great difficulty - but I'd suggest the difficulty had more to do with threats of one sort or another not that we couldn't think for ourselves. hell, the fact we had doubts again proved we had the necessary brain cells to see the Watchtower was not what it claimed to be.

  Again, this is not to deny we were in a high control group that had negligible tolerance for differing points of view.

  The latter-day Watchtower Society is becoming notorious for people coming in throught the front door (i.e., being born into the religion) and going straight out the backdoor when they get the first chance (i.e, on average, during adolescence). Call me picky, but that doesn't signify an imprint of brainwashing.
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  A Paduan

  Would they drink the 'koolaid'? Probably not. But that doesn't change the fact it's an extremely high control group, or cult, depending on your definition of the word.

  I think that's only because they don't have a particular 'biblical' bent and established doctrine for it, like they have with blood - with the right (or rather wrong) twist to an associated scripture, I reckon they would - disowning your own normally behaving children is a pretty extreme indicator too.
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  jojochan

  WELCOME TO THE FORUM NOTMYSELF!

  To answer that question, imo... whenever a "religion" comes between your flesh and blood, and your right to medical treatment;your right to live. Do you really have to ask? I'm sorry ' bout how your situation, hopefully they will change. I hope for the best. Stick around for awhile. It's helping me.
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  sf

  I'd like to recommend you read this thread, as it is very enlightening:

  The Watchtower on Brainwashing {click me}

  sKally
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  M.J.

  Remember that "mind control", "brainwashing" and "cult" are words that subjectively describe a degree that someone is influenced by a particular source. It's true that influence exists everywhere. Calling someone "brainwashed" is like calling someone "sickly"...there's no particular criteria to determine whether someone is definitely "sickly" or not...it all has to do with the DEGREE and EXTENT of the person's symptoms and their relative dehibilitating effect. As Steve noted, even among witnesses the degree of influence varies.

  Here's a great table that explains what I'm talking about: http://www.workingpsychology.com/ethics2.html

  Continuum of Influence

  	Education	Advertising	Propaganda	Indoctrination	Thought Control
  Relationship & Exchange	Limited consensual relationship; logical thinking is encouraged.	Instruction & emotional manipulation which target can ignore.	An authority attempts to persuade the masses.	Authoritarian & hierarchical but also consensual & contractual.	Authoritarian, hierarchical, without target awareness, for indefinite time.
  Deceptiveness	Infrequently deceptive if teacher has no agenda.	Selective information, sometimes deceptive.	Exaggeration, selective, may be deceptive.	Infrequently intentionally deceptive, often selective.	Deceptive.
  Methods	Instructional; indoctrination can occur when the teacher has an agenda.	Mild to heavy persuasion.	Heavy persuasion, compliance tactics.	Coercive compliance (punishment) condoned.	Unethical program of influence.
  Goals	Productive & capable citizenry, actualization. Indoctrination, if an agenda exists.	Sale of product or service.	Political power & control.	A cohesive & effective group.	Perpetuation of the group for money or power.