Great quote from C.S. Lewis

by Shining One 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • kid-A
    kid-A

    Rex, thanks for posting this.

    I actually was not aware that C.S. Lewis was such a dim-wit. His arguments are circular and reach conclusions based on completely unrelated premises. The idea that a "sense of justice" is based on reality is in no way logically related to an argument for or against the existence of a god. Lewis, in his ignorance, fails to consider the idea that justice and morality have simply evolved along with society for purely utlilitarian purposes. He also fails to realize that justice and morality are completely context and historically dependent. Different cultures in different times have completely separate concepts of justice and morality. Lewis bases his belief in a god 'created' by his own particular 'western' culture and historical epoch on the illusory belief in the permanence of his own cultural and moral context, which is completely meaningless.

  • Terry
    Terry
    "My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea, just and unjust? A man does not call a crooked line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it?

    A man feels wet when he falls into the water, because man is not a water animal; a fish would not feel wet. Of course, I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against ‘God’ collapsed too-for the argument depended on saying that the world was unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies! Thus, in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist-in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless_I found I was forced to assume that one part of my reality-namely my idea of justice was full of sense. Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should have never found out that it has no meaning: just as if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be a word without meaning."


    I will take that one step further. We cannot assume, (as a materialist does) that the supernatural, (anything that is outside of our senses or ways of measurement and method of science) does not exist. The naturalist assumes too much!

    Rex

    C.S. Lewis is a mushy thinker at best.

    He may be the most over-rated writer of our time, too.

    The standard of good and evil is man's own life and not the experience of bad which makes the absence of it automatically good.

    Ignorance doesn't make genius possible any more than death suggests life.

    Man's basic virtue is THINKING. All other virtues proceed from being able to think clearly. C.S. Lewis is telling us something different from this. He is indulging in the opposite of thinking. The fallacy of a false dichotomy is soaked into his philosophy.

    When man BLANKS OUT his mind he allows evil in.

    The willful suspension of one's consciousness allows man to commit folly upon himself and others by reducing the consequences SEEN.

    EVIL has no power; it is impotent. It is OUR FAILURE to act rationally which permits the default consequences which we then call: EVIL.

    EVIL wins only by this default.

    Nazi Germany? Default. Good people did little or nothing in too small numbers to avoid the rush into the vacuum of blind obedience to irrationality.

    In any compromise between food and poison; only death can win.

    Contrary to what C.S. Lewis says, man calls a crooked line crooked because man thinks CONCEPTUALLY.

    Man conceptualizes the shortest distance between two points, as Euclid did, and pronounces a definition of that distance as a straight line. It is a conceptual assertion.

    Man deals with life by means of values or valuations directly acquired from experiencing what works and what does not work.

    Eating works. Eating is good.

    Starving does not work. Starving is bad.

    Do mothers starve their children so that the child will eat?

    No. Mothers don't scream in their infant's ear so that they will appreciate a lullaby either.

    JUSTICE is getting what you deserve as a result of what you've done. Justice is not a vague notion of subjective consequences that result from pronouncements from a mountain top.

    INJUSTICE is not necessary to inform us of this. Cause and effect are everywhere impartial demonstrations of the physical universe.

    C.S. Lewis is an intellect who's natural intelligence was damaged by his quirky religious indoctrination.

    Terry

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Lewis was writing for the people of his day. Many of his arguments seem specious by 21st century standards, but the general direction of what he had to say was worthy of note. He makes an argument from the position of one who was an atheist and came to belief in God, and presents his view of that God. Is that a narrow view? Sure! But no less appropriate than anyone else with an ounce of spirituality.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/101100/1.ashx

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Terry:Are you so sure that your perspective is the only right one?

    You make a number of bold statements about man that are subject to reverse argumentation...

  • Terry
    Terry
    Are you so sure that your perspective is the only right one?

    You make a number of bold statements about man that are subject to reverse argumentation...

    Right?

    What do you mean "only"?

    T.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien
    Actually he was an athiest until his good friend J R Tolkien converted him to Christianity...

    hey misspeaches... nice avatar!

    oh yes! that's right too. tolkein and lewis, and what was the name of their oxford book club? inklings?. cool.

    well, what can i say? he was an atheist that converted to xianity. all the power to him!

    cheers matey,

    ts

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Ironically, I suspect that most Christians don't actually get what he had to say. They smile and nod where they agree, but a whole pile of his comments go over their head.

  • Terry
    Terry
    Ironically, I suspect that most Christians don't actually get what he had to say. They smile and nod where they agree, but a whole pile of his comments go over their head.

    In the bookstore I find an amazing number of people coming in asking for his books constantly. I query them (carefully) as to why. They seem to feel he is a very "safe" writer who makes difficult things easy to understand.

    I can't help myself when they say that.

    I interject: "Aren't you afraid you will just end up with yet another man's opinion about what god really wants you to know?"

    That creates an embarassing silence.

    T.

  • trevor
    trevor

    Shining One

    You are starting to apply logic and reasoning to your argument. This is a dangerous path that leads to the discovery of reality.

    It could be damaging to your faith!

  • Shining One
    Shining One

    >You are starting to apply logic and reasoning to your argument. This is a dangerous path that leads to the discovery of reality. It could be damaging to your faith!

    LOL
    Rex

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