I would think it better if we didn't recall everything about life in this world , such as traumatic death or beig born with various illness like retardation or brain damage . I can't believe the WTBTS says that people will forget everything about this world , I think we will always remember the greed and corruption caused by man when left to his own ends which will in turn help people to accept the heavens ruling and the no tolerance for the sinful activities that cause our own misery.
The New System, What will we remember?
by drew sagan 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
Hellrider
What, then, does resurrection mean for the individual? It means his being brought back to life as the same person. And what makes an individual the person he is? Is it the chemical substance making up his body? No, inasmuch as the molecules in the body are regularly being replaced. What really distinguishes him from other people, then, is his general physical appearance, his voice, his personality, his experiences, mental growth and memory. So when Jehovah God, by means of his Son Jesus Christ, raises a person from the dead, he evidently will provide that person with a body having the same traits as previously. The resurrected person will have the same memory that he had acquired during his lifetime and he will have the full awareness of that memory. The person will be able to identify himself, and those who knew him will also be able to do so. ‘But if a person is thus re-created,’ someone may say, ‘is he really the same person? Is he not just a copy?’ No, for this reasoning overlooks the fact earlier mentioned that even in life our bodies are constantly undergoing change. About seven years ago the molecules making up our bodies were different from the molecules forming them today. We even differ in appearance as the years go by. Yet, do we not have the same fingerprints? Are we not the same persons? Most certainly.
I know, I`ve read that one before. Active JWs, consider this: So, because our bodies are "constantly changing", this means that a ressurection (with no soul) is not the same as creating a replica, a copy, but "recreating" the same person? First of all, the constant replacement of cells in the human body can not possibly be compared to a ressurection of the dead. In the constant replacing of cells, just a few cells (relatively...) are replased at the time. This happens in a continous cycle while the person still lives, breathes, thinks. Will the fact that a person conitnuisly gets new cells, mean that a person is not the same person from one moment to the next? Possibly, that is a matter of philosophy. But any way you twist and turn this, when a living persons cells are replaced in a continous cycle, there is also a continuious, uninterupted flow of life, thoughts, ideas, memories going thru that persons mind. So what if some of a persons braincells are dying of and being replaced (continuiously). The new cells are "learning" from the old ones while this is happening, wouldn`t you think? Now, consider the ressurection (with no soul): Every cell in a persons body dies, and is destroyed (for the purpose of this example, lets say it is cremated). There is no more continuing flow of thought and memory. It`s all gone, nothing left ,the dust has been scattered. Where the person once was, there is now only air. The person doesn`t exist anymore. Sure, God can remember this person, how that person was like, and recreate him, with the exact same DNA, probably even insert the same memories in him when he is recreated (or not, the WTS seems to think it is likely God will eraze some memories from your lives in the new system...). But would it be the same person?
-
M.J.
So what if some of a persons braincells are dying of and being replaced (continuiously). The new cells are "learning" from the old ones while this is happening, wouldn`t you think?
Actually I've heard that brain cells are not replaced. You're stuck with the same ones for life, if I'm not mistaken.
I like AlmostAtheist's take on this one. What if God took all your personality, memories, traits, etc., and "resurrected" you...BEFORE YOU DIED? What would prevent him from doing this? Who would "you" be? Reminds me of the movie "the 6th Day" with Arnold Schwarzeneggar.
-
VM44
"‘But if a person is thus re-created,’ someone may say, ‘is he really the same person? Is he not just a copy?’ No, for this reasoning overlooks the fact earlier mentioned that even in life our bodies are constantly undergoing change. About seven years ago the molecules making up our bodies were different from the molecules forming them today. We even differ in appearance as the years go by. Yet, do we not have the same fingerprints? Are we not the same persons? Most certainly."
Why doesn't the Watchtower writer answer the question he raises, "Is the re-created person really the same person?", instead of going off and talking about the atoms and molecules in a living body being replaced every 7 years?
The writer insults the reader by trying to pass this off as an answer to the question.
--VM44
-
AlmostAtheist
The writer insults the reader by trying to pass this off as an answer to the question.
I'm sure this is an isolated case, though. The Watchtower couldn't be accused of a constant pattern of beating up straw men to avoid answering questions, could they?
Hint: Read any article at random
Dave
-
VM44
OK, Mr Watchtower writer...answer this question, "Suppose the memory patterns of an individual were placed in TWO seperate exact human bodies, so that you would have two beings each with the same set of memories, which of the two would be considered the same person as the one from which the memories came?
See? You so-called "answer" that a person's living body replaces itself physically ever 7 years as far as the molecules that make it up provides NO answer to the question of whether a re-created body is the same person who died.
The writer should have gone into a discussion of "continuity" of existence as far as maintaining the self-identity of a person, but he didn't even bother to try to do that, the writer just praises his own answer by ending the paragraph with "Most Certainly".
--VM44
-
AlmostAtheist
Questions From Readers:
OK, Mr Watchtower writer...answer this question, "Suppose the memory patterns of an individual were placed in TWO seperate exact human bodies, so that you would have two beings each with the same set of memories, which of the two would be considered the same person as the one from which the memories came?" - VM, Degobah
This question may come up in the minds of honest Christians as they seek to understand the wisdom of God's resurrection arrangement. "Could not God do this twice?" they ask, "Or three times? If so, which would be the real me?"
There is no need to speculate on the matter. The Bible itself answers the question when it says, "He is the God not of the dead, but of the living." Certainly, if there is only one person that is in need of a resurrection, this person will only need be raised once. Just as when a person falls asleep, do we need to wonder how many of that individual will awaken?
Prominent radioligist Stan Larsbeck commented, "When a person goes to sleep, he invariably awakens as a single, whole individual." Certainly, if this is the case in our imperfect state, God would do no less in a perfect, paradise earth.
We are wise not to allow ourselves to dwell on speculations that distract us from following God's Word unquestionably. Whether your hope is earthly or heavenly, whether you survive into the paradise or are resurrected into it, you can be assured that God knows how many of you there were.
-
M.J.
LMAO Dave. You really have a talent for this stuff!
-
greendawn
They assume that they will make it into the new system or world because they are part of the WTS, in fact no one that is part of it will get anything good in the future.
There is nothing in the Bible about a new system as they describe it anyway, for example the resurrected will not eat or get married and have sex. And at some stage all the unpleasant things of this system will become a distant memory. -
Hellrider
Ha ha, AlmostAtheist that was so funny. All the keywords. Replace "radiologist" with proctocologist and I`ll laugh so bad I`ll have a heart attack.