Tetrapod.sapiens & SHOOTIS
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I am sorry I read my response and I understand your reaction. Once more sorry!
And no I never been and not planning to be JW as I am thinking person. My experience and findings shows that God is not imposter, just people tend to missunderstand things which are not clearly stated and naturally "fills" the gaps and thats why they get sometimes wrong conclusions. I could try to fill the gaps, and then it's up to you to decide if it sounds reasonable... That's of course if you want to find out other opinions about da topic.
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Once more - please forgive me my offending tone. All my fault!
And no I don't think that world is only black and white. And no I don't know all the TRUTH... I am searching it, and there are things I have found and what I believe and gladly will share to someone who seeks to know things.
Jehovah, The Imposter God
by THE SHOOTIST 21 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Shazard
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ezra
the tree was meant for a future purpose and besides if you leave you car somewhere does that give someone the right to steal it/ the same is true with the tree it was his not theirs another thought was they didnt touch that tree until satan tempted them.they didnt lose their trust until someone tempted them to doobt gods intentions kind of like this forum
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ezra
moshe you sound like a peaceful person its refreshing
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mdb
tetra.sap,
Making a mockery of the God who will one day judge the world is not to your benefit. Do you realize how infinitely small and powerless you are in comparison to the Living God? This world is a speck of dust in the universe and you're less than a speck in this world. The God you feel at ease to mock, accuse, belittle, make fun of and disregard, created all that there is and by the word of His mouth it came into being. Who are you or any man that we should treat the Living God with such contempt?
About the tree in the middle of the garden... By placing the tree in the garden, he gave man a choice. Giving man a choice was a loving act, so that we weren't created as slaves, but free. It's man's fault that sin entered the world. We chose to eat and we still choose to eat of the things God has said will bring us harm. Eating an apple didn't harm us, but the willful disobedience toward God harmed us and brought a separation between God who is holy and man who became unclean. Maybe you'll have a chance to ask the Lord about it one day. Of course, at that time you probablly won't care too much about a tree.
YES, the following is from the bible and I'll use it because I do believe the Bible is the word of God and is true.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Heb 10:31)
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
(1 Co 1:18-15) -
THE SHOOTIST
MDB and EZRA,
Do you realize what you're saying about your God? It's all about fear and you better be scared and he carries a big stick and he will whop you because you don't reason the way he does. This is JW theology to the max, the same crap I ran out the door to get away from.
In the Genesis fiction account he did put the tree in the middle of the garden and he did set up the whole situation for failure. Your all knowing God set up his ant farm and got out his magnifying glass and he's been playing games ever since. You said he had future plans for the tree. What plans? You mean God's plan failed? This great all-knowing supreme being got his future tree plans messed up. Just how great and powerful is this Wizard of Oz?
Let me tell you some reasoning on the Bible God. He lets Satan walk into his presence and then he points out good old Job. Yea, he's mine and what can you do about it? I tell you what Satan, kill his kids, take his possessions, get his friends and wife to talk crap on him, strike him with ghastly sores from head to toe, and make sure he lives through the torture. Now the all-knowing Jehovah was without a doubt making a sure bet on imperfect Job. This same all-knowing God put Job through proverbial hell to prove a point he already knew the answer to. There we go again, the big nasty kid with the ant farm and Job under the magnifying glass getting his ass burned. If Jehovah knew Job would succeed, he also knew Adam and Eve would fail. He still playing his nasty little games if you believe the Bible.
Remember, Jehovah got pissed because Adam and Eve found out what was good and bad, they didn't want to be mindless puppets any longer. God even said now they have become like us (gods) knowing good and bad. Then he says they've got to die, and their children because I don't forgive anyone finding out about good and bad. Now I want the blood of millions of animals in sacrifice and then a human sacrifice of my perfect son, and they're still going to die after this sacrifice because they may not be kissing my ass just right. Then I'm going ressurrect them so I can let my trusted game player, Satan, out one more time. Then I can continue to play my games and test, test, test, and kill, kill, kill, because testing and killing are what I've proven myself to be so good at. I mean, look at my old testament account, I was great at testing and killing. Heck, one of my greatest feats was killing the 70,000 Israelites because my good friend David numbered Israel. Then that she-bear incident, you know, getting the 42 children ripped apart. That's almost as good as watching Freddy and Jason at the movies.
This all-knowing Jehovah, don't you just have to love him as your knees knock and your knuckles turn white with fear. That what real faith in the Bible does for you!!! -
Brigid
Moshe,
You sound like one who has studied Torah, Midrash and Talmud. I had the opportunity to spend a few years studying with a rabbi. What I learned was priceless! It really helped me make peace with the Jewish G-d. It helped me to understand how totally messed up and misdirected Christians are when it comes to the so-called OT. It's a whole 'nother ball game in Hebrew. Of course, I am not fluent in biblical Hebrew.
Are you Jewish? Studying with a Rabbi? Or just well ready judaically?
B'Shalom,
~Brigid
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Trojan
SHOOTIST:
Here in short. I'm kind of biased since I'm still "inside" this mess (WTBTS active)....I have started for a long time to develop some independent thoughts on issues like this and have put them "way back into my mind". I have some common ground with you, although as others have stated I still wan't to believe in that all-loving, all-caring God. But here's the "official explanation" from WTBTS on this "problem" (all-knowing god). I personally have problems, and had long heated discussions over this with other elders or circuit overseers, I still don't get the point, but to throw in an extra explanation (and I would really like to see how different people on this forum see this particular point):
Jehovah is all-knowing, foresees it all, way into the future (otherwise the prophecies stuff doesn't work). So, how can you reconcile that with the problem you mentioned (didn't see the Adam/Eve problem coming up)? Well, the Reasoning book (and other literature of JW) explains that he can "shut off" his ability to foresee stuff. They use this illustration: you have many stations in your radio/tv set, but you can switch around and purposedly "ignore" the ones you don't wan't to know! So Jehovah, went ahead and didn't foresee what would happen to Adam/Eve - he switche off to another channel that he did want to foresee (like the prophecies in Daniel, Revelation etc.) It's his own choice. Here's another illustration I've read in the Watchtower: It's like a car. It has the ability to drive at 100 MPH or cruise at 50 MPH. Jehovah's the same. Sometimes he decides to switch to the "let-me-see-what-will-happen-to-this-particular-guy"-mode and sometimes he switches that off!
Easy, isn't it? Yep, I knew you would love this one!
I once asked some other collegues (elders): So, does Jehovah know WHO is going to survive Armageddon? Could he foresee the fatal fate of millions of individuals (so that we don't have to go and visit a particular person and waste our time, in case Jehovah foresaw that this particular person WILL loose the game). The answer was NO. Big-time NO! He switches off the mode and willingfull does not wan't to know, just to give the person to use his/her FREE WILL. Well, now things got complicated, because if you throw in FREE WILL and then say everything CAN be foreseen, but at the same time you don't believe in a FIXED PATTERNED life (like JW), then you have a whole deal of stuff to explain.
By the way: there is no way to sustain the above explanation with Bible scriptures (the "switch on/off"-mode of foreseeing things). But it's official JW doctrine.
Now, the ball is rolling.
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trevor
Shootist - You ask
What was Jehovah thinking when he put that tree in the middle of the garden and the told Adam and Eve not to eat of its fruit?
Perhaps we should ask:
What was the writer of Genesis thinking when he claimed that a god called Jehovah put a tree in the middle of a garden and the told Adam and Eve not to eat of its fruit?
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Gretchen956
Moshe, you said: This is the age of the god within rather than the god without.
Thing is, because I worship the Goddess doesn't mean I don't believe what you said. She is in me, I am in her, we are one. I don't have to go looking for her somewhere other than within.
Leolaia, yes I did see that post. Very interesting.
Sherry
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Faraon
Shootist,
What was Jehovah thinking when he put that tree in the middle of the garden and the told Adam and Eve not to eat of its fruit? The real all-knowing God would never have done such a thing. Didn't he know that making the tree and the fruit would absolutely ruin this perfect man and woman?
Hey, God did not plant the tree and forbade Adam to eat from it. It was Jovah who did the planting and prohibited its consupmtion. God told them that they could eat from all trees.
Gen. 1: 29 And God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Adam and Eve were God's last creations. Jehovah created man first, then the animals, and then Eve.
Faraon