Question about baptism (page 2)

Sheepish

So they no longer baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit????

jwfacts

Sheepish, you still get baptised to the Father Son and HS, but in a very round about way as they do not believe the Holy Spirit has a name as it is not a person.

Watchtower 1985 June 1 p.30

On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
The second is:
Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?

The WTS has the legal side covered these days. I discussed this with Vin Toole, from the Australian Bethel Legal Department. You are baptised to God's spirit-directed organization, which JWs know is the WTS, but in court that is very hard to prove.

The WTS are also very careful to put nothing in writing. This is a verbal contract, and when you get d/f they refuse to provide the person with anything written. As they say, 'a verbal contract is not worth the paper it is written on".

kid-A

It certainly has no legal meaning at least in north america. The main difference with other x-tian versions of baptism is that only baptized JWs can be formally "disfellowshipped" which means being cruelly shunned, losing ones friends and family etc. One simply answers some questions privately with elders, then right before the public baptism, those being baptized stand at the convention and publicly answer a few questions.

Frannie Banannie

As a matter of fact, Jesus would not qualify for baptism in the Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses today.
Interesting statement Frannie Banannie! Really. Could you precise a bit? I would love to use some of those arguments with my fellow elders (as some of them wan't to take the baptism procedures even further

Jesus was known as the son of God (would be in conflict with the Gov. Haughty's supremacy), Jesus associated with worldly bad associations (prostitutes, tax men, etc.) and even ATE with them (three BOE's turned down my son's baptism because their kids at my son's school told that he was associating and eating with "worldly" kids, which they did themselves, but oh well), Jesus was promoted by his father when he was baptised (a circus serpent gave a public talk ostracizing me (but withheld my name) when I was questioning the BOE's motives for denying my son's baptism, by claiming that a parent shouldn't promote their family members, as it's nepotism (shame on you, God!), Jesus didn't study for a year or more and go to 5 meetings a week and participate in field service before baptism, and Jesus took no vows of loyalty to the WTS as God's earthly organization and only channel between God and mankind. Also, Jesus went AHEAD of the Gov. Haughty by being baptised at the BEGINNING of his ministry and without the WTS's approval.

Does that do it for you, TROJAN?

Frannie

Sunspot

Let's start with what the BIBLE says, and we'll see the comarison of what the WTS "teaches";

Matthew 28:19-20 (Contemporary English Version)

19Go to the people of all nations and make them my disciples. Baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, 20and teach them to do everything I have told you. I will be with you always, even until the end of the world.

~

Matthew 28:19-20 (Worldwide English (New Testament)

19So go and make disciples in all countries. Baptise them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

20Teach them to do all the things I have told you to do. I am with you always, even to the end of time.'

~

Matthew 28:19-20 (Worldwide English (New Testament)

19So go and make disciples in all countries. Baptise them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

20Teach them to do all the things I have told you to do. I am with you always, even to the end of time.'

~
Matthew 28:19-20 (New International Version)

19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Above are different bible versions that deal with the subject of what Jesus said about the spreading of HIS teachings... and instructions baptism.

ALL instructions (Jesus command) say---to properly baptize, it MUST be done in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. (Are we all in agreement so far?)

Now notice the contrast to what Jesus said.....

The newest baptismal questions, from the June 1, 1985 Watchtower:
(1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

(2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?

WHOA! HEY!! WHAT happened?

WHERE and WHY does any "organization" come into play?

Do these questions even sound like what any BIBLE says?

What IS the WTS hiding; covering up? Why such UNChristian
language....(unchristian meaning "not of or from" Christ.)

Charlatans,frauds and false Christs use loaded language that appears to be "genuine" but on closer scrutiny, are exposed for just who and what they are.

The cleverly contrived weasel-words and references to Christ have sadly fooled millions of people into beleving the WTS is Christian.

I distinctly remember sitting at the 1985 convention whan this set of questions was read and it literally made me sit upright (I had just bent over to retrieve a fallen pen) and I never heard any of the rest of what the speaker said after that. It struck me that hard. Foolish me, I then dismissed it from my mind as I went down to see someone getting baptized. It wasn't until later did any of the import sink in.

This type of (non)thinking is quite common among those who are in groups such as the WTS. We trusted in them so completely that even things like this were glossed over in our minds, "believing" in them to be right. (you know---the holy spirit and the "adjustments" that were being made...blah-blah-blah)

The more I began to realize just what the WTS was and how terribly corrupt is IS from the ground up, did I also realize that "reform" was impossible. The WTS is notably absent when it comes to admitting they were ever wrong and exhibiting humility would be a necessary part of "righting these wrongs" if they truly wished to do so.

It's a take it or leave it proposition....even when they change their minds on what it is that JWs are expected to then believe as THE "truth". The only thing, IMO, that will have any impact on those trapped inside the lies...is exposure OF these lies.

Despite all the crowing about "stats and glowing reports from different lands" that we hear the JWs speak about, WE know these things to be quite the opposite! JWs are becoming exJWs at an alarming (to the WTS) rate because they are AWAKING! UP to these deceptions as the WTS struggles to keep abreast of all their lies, changing doctrines and their faulty predictions coming back to bite them.

Maybe it was done for legal reasons?

IMO, IF the WTS had been baptizing ts followers in doing what jesus himself comanded...and IN THE WAY HE SAID TO DO THIS...then why in the world WOULD the WTS have to BE concerned about any lawsuits or legal problems????

Have you EVER heard of any other religion that had to keep changing their minds like this one? Baptizing in the name of the Father--the Son--and the Holy Spirit, isn't grounds for a lawsuit! At least I have never heard of it!

But, again....we have the case of the WTS always striving to be SO different from "other churches" in all its practices---that it looks both foolish and ridiculous....even when it comes right down to rejecting Jesus own instructions on how to baptize!

IF the WTS is ever-so-conscious of being sued, WHY do they keep straying further and further away from what Jesus said? Why NOT just do it HIS way and be done with it?

Does anyone know why this is?

I'm SURE that they feel as if there is some kind of WTS "reasoning" for saying and doing it this way....but until a JW comes forward to answer this, we can only wonder "WHY?"! And yet....the JWs don't bat an eyelash and accept this without question as expected.

For a (so called) "religion" that takes " such great care and going to extremes in issues like the no-blood nonsense, not celebrating Jesus' resurrection, etc, etc...then they totally ignore the way Jesus SAID to baptize CHRISTIANS, which I think IS be the key here.

I don't think they ARE Christian based on most of their teachings...and the GB MUST know this or they'd do as Jesus said! I honestly feel that even just on this one (MAJOR) point---that they are trying to cleverly word the baptism vows to cover the fact that they are NOT following Christ and are well aware of this.

This makes me think of that imitation chocolate that SAYS chocolate on the wrapper but when you take a taste...you know it isn't very good. After hunting for and then when you read the ingredients found on the wrapper (in very tiny print)....you realize how many "substitute ingredients" are being used to make the chocolate "taste like and appear to be" the pure chocolate that your mouth was hoping for! Such is the WTS, the "pure worship" amd "pure language" is not what your soul is longing for.

I really do wish someone (preferably a JW) would come in this thread and provide some insight on this.

You HAVE noticed that not ONE has come forward to "explain" this. Seeing as how this IS the way the WTS practices baptism, you would think that SOME JW would like to "straighten us out"!

Maybe they HAVE no answer to this.

Annie

Sheepish

That was good Frannie. It seems if the JWs conform to any class, it would be the Pharisee class.

Question about baptism

Sheepish

serendipity

jwfacts

kid-A

Frannie Banannie

Sunspot

Sheepish

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