Ray Franz Books Left People With No Where To Go?

by drahcir yarrum 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Nice post Richard...

    Mulan said "His concern is that people who read his books are left spiritually bankrupt, and don't read the Bible anymore."

    D wiltshire said "I feel that Ray Franz's books have told us where to go, you just have to read them a little more closely and you will see (especially the Search book)."

    Well, I agree with both the above statements, as they apply neatly to two of the possible outcomes for an x-Dub.

    There are those who realised that religion actually is a snare and a racket, and that there probably isn't a god thing anyway. Either that or they were so alienated from god by the Borg they can't believe any longer. What explaination you prefer depends on how your beliefs ended up.

    Then there are those who escaped the falseness of the Borg and found, errrrr, true Christian Freedom, (with or without the capitals). Either that, or they are so conditoned to believe in god they can't let go, even when there probably isn't one. Again, what explaination you prefer depends on how your beliefs ended up.

    Personally I think Ray Franz is a good guy. He made a stand and I believe that right is on his side in many ways on the stand he took. He exposed organisational malpractise and culpable disemination of mis and disinformation. The doctrinal stuff is more of a remove for me, as I'm not a believer now.

    Because of this I don't read the Bible any more. Despite this I don't feel myself to be spiritually bankrupt.

    Maybe what I feel to be my spirituality is in a different currency to that of a theist (I am a humanist), and thus from their perspective I appear to be bankrupt.

    ISoCF, as anewperson and D wiltshire point out, does give a compass bearing to Ray's personal beliefs, whereas CoC is more of a pure expose.

    I was struck by Nathan Natas' comment about the attitude many Witnesses have;

    "If this isn't the Truth, then there is no truth."

    Isn't that like saying that if Santa Claus isn't real, nothing is real?

    If this isn't the truth, then SOMETHING ELSE must be the truth.

    A good place to begin is with REALITY - the evidence of your senses.

    I was reading the Beatles Anthology the other day; there's a bit where Lennon gets to ride in a helicopter with the Maharishi. George asked him why he had wanted to so much, and Lennon replied that he hoped tyhe Maharishi would slip him The Answer. Scouse irony aside, the idea that there is an Answer ('to Life the Universe and Everything', as Douglas Adams put it) is wonderfully cute.

    Personally, unless there is an old hyper being existing in multiple dimensions who has 'a plan' (which I don't believe), I don't think there is an answer or 'truth'.

    There are facts, that we can discern using our mind and senses.

    But I find that assuming there is some underlying 'truth' just because we know some of the facts underpinning our reality is a big jump.

    Maybe that's in my reading of it; I see the idea of 'truth' synominous with 'an answer to Life the Universe and Everything'.

    Truth is a hugely loaded word, quite probably for all of us, as it indicates right or wrong as well as actuality.

    E=mc>2. F=ma. s=u+1/2at>2. Photosynthesis. The Nitrogen cycle. These are all FACTS, as far as we know. There is no morality in biology chemistry or physics. Thus there is no truth.

    For me, getting out of the Borg has been a discovery that you don't NEED a spirit in the sky to be spiritual. It's been a discovery that you don't need The Answer, or The Truth to have a happy life. That you don't need some hopeful anticipation of, in some way, not really dying.

    I am alive. I was born, I will die. It is wonderful. It's more than enough. So maybe I am actually saying that for myself there IS a truth or an answer.

    But I wouldn't capitalise them as they don't neccesarily apply to you, or you, or you.

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Ray Franz does not have to offer a substitute.

    If I realise that someone has got on the wrong bus and I inform them of their mistake, am I then duty-bound to provide them with another bus?

    Englishman.

    ..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    Nice post man. I couldn't agree more.

    There is so much to be gained by embracing reality. Active JW's have a hard time comprehending just how good it feels to be freed from the shackles of fear and superstition.

    As I move more and more away from the religion, I find myself increasingly frustrated at those who want another substitute for reality, another crutch, another master.

    It is a shame, but some will always be children living in their fantasy worlds. If only they could see life as an adventure instead of something to be afraid of.

    Path

  • biblexaminer
    biblexaminer

    Well, I just received a fine letter from Ray and Cynthia.

    Ray doesn't seem to be to broken up by "concern" over whether or not he's created as new disillusioned class...:)

    He's just doing...

    And what's more, I here wish him and Cynthia the same measure of health, happines and longevity that I wished them in my correspondence.

    I also express my gratitude.

    Carry on!

  • Disengaged
    Disengaged

    test

    "They couldn't quite explain it, they'd always just gone there.....mmmm.mmm.mmm. CTDummies

  • JWinSF
    JWinSF

    >>>
    ... I must tell you that the freedom awaiting you when you make a final break from the organization will more than offset any personal relationships that you may lose.
    >>>

    AMEN!!!

    The relief from the burden of unnessary rules/regulations/fear/shame/and guilt tactics that the Society uses to keep its members "in line" is priceless.

    I decided that I would disassociate from the JWs for a personal reason
    and met with two elders advising them of such. They asked if I still believed it was "The Truth". To which I honestly replied [at the time] "yes". Between the time of my advising them of my intentions and my actual sending in a letter of disassociation [two months] I read both of Ray's books. It was then that "scales fell from my eyes". I realized that I not only would disassociate for my personal reason, but after having learned the truth about "The Truth", I would not want to remain part of it under any circumstances.

    Thanx for the posting.

  • thewiz
    thewiz

    I remember a Sis. on the platform who was being interviewed by a Bro. who claims to be of the Anointed, even though Bro. Knorr said he wasn't. My dad was there, said he witnessed the whole thing. Even tried to calm the guy down. Don't be surprised if he gets appointed to the GB, they come as young as 58 on the GB. -I can't resist the personal jabs

    Anyway, she was affirming her love for the JWs and the WTBS and said, "If the society told me that this sheet of paper was black (it was white) I would believe them."

    Now, at that time I took it the same way I took it now. Someone with absolute blind devotion/credulity to an organization that shouldn't be questioned.

    Most others appear to have taken it as a person who has implicit trust and reliablity in the WTBS.

    For all of you that like to drop names, tell your buddy Mr. Franz I said, "HowzItGoin Cousin? My GrandPppy drank from the cup jus' like you did, that makes you kin, and youse my Great Uncle."

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