Part 2: We Long to Hear These Words

by Amazing1914 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • Honesty
    Honesty
    You will be surprised at the similarities to the Watchtower. The WCG even had a great falling away over the failure of their own 1975 prophecy. In fact, the similarities are so close, that it almost makes me wonder if God used their conversion to help us have some hope. [PS: Neither the Watchtower nor the WCG used each others literature to form their own articles ... it was all truly a strange coincidence ... especially when the Plain Truth and the Watchtower has similar articles in the same month.]

    As a former member of both groups (yeah, I know how stupid that was now) I am very inclined to believe that their "Light" came from the same source.....

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee
    yeah, I know how stupid that was now

    And a perfect reason why it is so important to understand the controls and manipulations that got us caught in the first place. I'm sure no one is interested in Round 2 or 3 or more (and yes I know of people who have been in more).

    Interestingly I know of a few JW who left the WTS and got involved in Amway with their prayer sessions before their sales meetings!!!

  • outoftheorg
    outoftheorg

    For me, the wbts can say their sorry and change their ways an beg for forgivness all they want.

    It won't change a thing for me. My siblings who shunned me are now dead and gone. The nephews and neices that do not talk to me, have done so for 15 years and it is the same for my so called jw friends.

    The hurt is too deep and the time is too long. The marriage they ruined and the shuning from some of my children still hurts.

    It is obvious that they will never change, so I want them exposed for who they are and how dangerous and hateful they are. They are what they are, a rabidly hateful cult that deserves the pain of destruction and being displayed for all the world to see.

    I don't forget those who hurt me and my family with pleasure and joy and the elders and co's and do's and the gb do take joy and satisfaction in their actions and their power over the members of this cult .

    They do not deserve forgivness from me and I am comfortable with that.

    Outoftheorg

  • TMS
    TMS

    Thank you, Jim, for sharing this topic. Hopefully, you and yours are doing well.

    The Watchtower does a fine job of advocating humility. Many of us succeeded in conducting ourselves as a "lesser one," allowing ourselves to be wronged, overlooked or ignored. The psychological implication is that we sometimes became stoic, self-righteous martyrs, but I'll save that for another thread. LOL!

    With respect to the GB displaying humility, the track record is not good. I cite the '75 fiasco as an example. Those of us who lived and served during the period from the release of the book Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God to the fall of 1975 know the truth about the origin of the hype and misleading utterances. It wasn't the brotherhood. Of course, no apology was ever given for the false info that led to bad decisions, financial and healthwise, made by the the flock.

    Sometimes displays of humility are just that.(Didn't Jesus say something like that?) Legendary, longtime district overseer, Eugene Brandt, used to do something that I admired when I was a very young elder. When he conducted the school at the circuit assembly, he would occasionally make some minor faux paus, such introducing talk 4 before talk 3 and afterward, literally beg the audience's forgiveness for his grave sin. It was almost as if he had committed adultery and was paraphrasing Psalm 51. I used to think: "Now that's the kind of elder I want to be!"

    Years later, I had the opportunity of working more closely with Brandt. I found him the most pompous, arrogant, self-righteous know-it-all I have ever encountered. But the public display of humility was still there. As he gave the closing prayer in several public venues, his voice cracked at the exact same place in every prayer. I heard elders comment later: "Did you notice Brother Brandt almost broke down emotionally when he mentioned serving us for the last time?" I had observed that act before.

    Joel Meeks, a circuit overseer now deceased, had a knack for making grandiose statements. In a talk to the congregation, he made a pronouncement obviously out of sync with "current understanding." As an elder body after the meeting we huddled to decide how or if we would confront him. We ambushed him at the elders' meeting. We had a couple of elders who would have been good district attorneys. They turned Meeks everyway but loose for about an hour. He did not waver one iota from his statements.

    A couple of personal anecdotes of my correspondence with the Society and their handling of matters.

    In the early 60's I applied as a regular pioneer for a temporary special pioneer assignment in unassigned territory. I was 19 and a servant in the congregation. I waited all summer for the Society's response to my application. Meanwhile, I made plans and purchased provisions. The Society responded after the summer was over with a succinct letter. My name had been confused with an elderly brother with the same name in New York. In all future correspondence with the Society, I was to use my full middle name. In other words, it was my mistake, even though they could see my return address was in Texas and I was on the list of servants for my congregation, etc.

    In the mid '70's I was on a large elder body that recommended two brothers to serve as elders. I forget the form number, but back then the Society would simply check with a green pencil those appointed. The letter came back from the Society with one brother's name checked and one not. There was a brief explanation concerning the brother not appointed: "Too young and not baptized long enough." The only problem was that the brother appointed was younger and had been baptized for a shorter time than the brother not appointed. It was an obvious clerical error. Our body of elders tossed this around for long time. Most were in favor of letting the appointment stand as is. The vote was 9-2. I was in the minority. The irony was that on this large body, I was the PO and the Secretary(another thread.) The other brother on the service committee also wanted an explanation. We were allowed to send a letter to the Society asking for an explanation. The original form came back from Brooklyn with both brothers green checked. No explanation. No apology.

    Back to the original topic

    I'm familiar with the Worldwide Church of God apology. Without a doubt if the Watchtower governing body had displaying similar manliness, many on this board would not be here. When my wife and I experienced some hardlining concerning our efforts to help our disfellowshipped adult son in the 90's, my wife would get up in the morning with the same two questions she went to bed with: "Where is Jehovah in all this? Do you think they will every apologize?

    Jim, your topic struck the proverbial chord with me.

    tms

  • Amazing1914
    Amazing1914

    Hi Everyone,

    I appreciate all of the good comments. Some, like Lady Lee, felt that perhaps any apology is too little, too late ... I understand hers and other comments correctly.

    Lady Lee: Perhaps I spoke a little too softly. I do not mean to say that the Society can escape heavy accountability. They must be brought to justice, and pay heavy financial claims, and maybe some jail time if crimes are proven in some cases. However, we must admit that not everyone in the organization, from many at Bethel down to the local Elder are insincere or deliberately engaged in harmful acts. If new leadership takes over, and turns the old leadership over to the law (or plaintiffs in civil matters) and the new leadership changes policy and publically apoligizes as did the WCG, then I believe that would help our healing (not that we must have it, but it would help), especially knowing we played some part in that process from our ex-JW position.

    Honesty: Your insight on this issue then must be doubly clear, because the WCG was so much like the JWs in many ways. A good friend of mine (still a member of the WCG) used to ride to work with me in the 1970s. I learned much from him, and we often suported one another at work when it came to holidays and certain religious discussions. The reason I said that the incidence of similar literature is a coincidence is that the WCG current leadership stated it ... and given their current track record, I have no reason to doubt them. Also, I have asked various former Bethelites who had involvement with the Watchtower writing staff about this, and they likewise denied using any WCG literature as their source. If you are referring to both groups being insp[ired by the devil in the same way ... well that is something I cannot prove or disprove.

    TMS: I am surprised at your experience, and yet not surprised. I recall that the Society used green felt pens to check approved appointments, and a "red" felt line though those not approved. They always wrote a short letter to discuss the "rejected" appointment. As for the guy who cracked his voice exactly at the same juncture in his prayer ... it is possible that he felt strongly about this topic and when he reached that point, his emotions welled up ... . I tend to impute good motives and the benefit fo the doubt to people. Sometimes, I need to step back and realize that there are just plain bastards out there who are as wicked as the day is long. I am sure some of these latter types managed to work their way into the Watchtower organization ... or that the organization corrupted otherwise perfectly nice people.

    Jim W.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Lady Lee: Perhaps I spoke a little too softly. I do not mean to say that the Society can escape heavy accountability. They must be brought to justice, and pay heavy financial claims, and maybe some jail time if crimes are proven in some cases. However, we must admit that not everyone in the organization, from many at Bethel down to the local Elder are insincere or deliberately engaged in harmful acts. If new leadership takes over, and turns the old leadership over to the law (or plaintiffs in civil matters) and the new leadership changes policy and publically apoligizes as did the WCG, then I believe that would help our healing (not that we must have it, but it would help), especially knowing we played some part in that process from our ex-JW position.

    You know Jim, I don't blame the individual witnesses unless they had a direct hand in the abuse, like my ex-husband who failed to be honorable and inflicted abuse on me and the children. My mother gets a nod there too. She was abusive before the WTS and continues it to this day.

    Even the elder who recommended that my mother send her abused children out of the home and kept the abuser at home and in the cong doesn't bear as much responsibility since I really believe he was acting on WTS policy.

    Given your scenario where new people took over and the old regime was charged with many types of abuses and fraud, well that's a whole different deal. We wouldn't be dealing with the same people in power. I would never go back. Accountability would happen if all those in charge were arrested.

    A new leadership that deposed the present GB would not, and could not, be held responsible for the decisions of others, unless they upheld some of the most hurtful policies of the WTS.

    As for the isssue of forgiveness, I truly believe that to forgive another person of an injustice requires that the abuser must FULLY acknowledge the hurt they have caused and find ways to make amends. This apology is far more than saying "I'm sorry". Specifics are required from those who inflicted the pain regarding what was done and the hurt that was inflicted.

    ahhhhh the things that dreams are made of!!

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