no one can say that "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit
Jesus no longer really "a god"?
by M.J. 44 Replies latest watchtower bible
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eyess83
???????????????????????
Why do you, guys, build such a mess on such a clear matter???
See, for me this is very clear. Why? Well, first of all, the WTB &TS has many times admitted that Jesus must be worshipped... if you don't believe it, read yourself what C. T. Russell said while he was alive:
Watch Tower 1880 Oct
“He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe by the wise men who came to see the new born king .... He never reproved any for acts of worship offered to himself .... Had Christ not been more than a man the same reason would have prevented Him from receiving worship....”
Watch Tower 1898 July 15 “Interesting Queries,”
“ Question . The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Answer . Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so . … It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father and his agent in the creation of all things, including man ”
Watch Tower 1906 January 1 “Gifts to Our King”
“In one respect many of Christendom could learn numerous important lessons from these wise Gentiles.... They worshiped him in three senses of the word : (1) They fell before him, prostrated themselv es, thus physically expressing their reverence. (2) They worshiped him in their hearts and with the tongue gave expression to their rejoicing and confidence. (3) They opened their treasure-box and presented to him three gifts appropriate to royalty: the my rrh represe nting submission, frankincense representing praise, gold representing obedience”
Watch Tower 1892 May 15 “To Whom Should We Pray?”
“It is undoubtedly proper enough for us to address petitions to our Redeemer and Advocate, who loved us and gave himself for us....Although we are nowhere instructed to make petitions to him , it evidently could not be improper so to do; for such a course is nowhere prohibited, and the disciples worshiped him. — Matt. 28: 9, 17 . ”
Then J. F. Rutherford continued:
Watchtower 1939 November 15 p.339.
“Jehovah God commands all to worship Christ Jesus because Christ Jesus is the express image of his Father, Jehovah, and because he is the Executive Officer of Jehovah always carrying out Jehovah’s purpose (Heb. 1:3–6).”
Vindication , vol. 3 p.295
“During the Millennium, “the princes will lead the people in their worship of Jehovah and of Christ .”
Salvation p.151
“The people of all nations who obtain salvation must come to the house of the Lord to worship there; that is to say, they must believe on and worship Jehovah God and the Lord Jesus Christ , his chief instrument (Philippians 2:10, 11).”
Knorr continued to teach we should worship Jesus and the 1940’s Watchtower articles still stated that Jesus was to be worshipped.
Watchtower 1945 October 15
“Now, at Christ’s coming to reign as king in Jehovah’s capital organization Zion, to bring in a righteous new world, Jehovah makes him infinitely higher than the godly angels or messengers and accordingly commands them to worship him .... “
As you can see, the WTB & TS has admitted that Jesus Christ should be worshipped (if you want to read more, click on this site: http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/worshipjesus.htm).
Well, if you are wondering why I say it is so clear and why I quoted all that is because when the WTB & TS admits we must worship Jesus, it also admits that Jesus is not 'a god' but 'THE God'. How can it be? Read this once again:
Watchtower 1939 November 15 p.339.
“Jehovah God commands all to worship Christ Jesus because Christ Jesus is the express image of his Father, Jehovah, and because he is the Executive Officer of Jehovah always carrying out Jehovah’s purpose (Heb. 1:3–6).”
If God commands all of us to worship Jesus Christ, then Jesus Christ can NOT be any other thing than God Himself. Read what God says in Isaiah 42:8 according to the New World Translation of the Holy Bible:
“I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images."
If He (God) is not to give His own glory, neither His praise to no one else, then why does He give them to Jesus and then commands us all to worship Him (Jesus)? Because Jesus is NOT just 'somebody else', He isn't just 'a man', nor 'an angel', neither 'a god' but THE God. The only and Almighty God who uttered those words in Isaiah. He, being the second person of the Godhead, and at the same time being one with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, is the one who came to the earth and lived as a simple man, but without losing His deity because that was the only way He could live a perfect life in God's eyes (without sin), since His divine nature was the only thing that could stop Him from sinning. It is that God (the one who came to the earth, died because of our sins, arose and defeated sin) the who we should worship.
There are LOTS, and LOTS, and LOTS of texts in the Bible that call Jesus not 'a god' but 'THE God over all'. There are other texts that show that He is the God... He is the '"'ego eimi" ('I AM' in Greek) or the "YHWH" ('I AM' in Hebrew). Just take a close look at the Book of Revelations and you will see how the Bible gives to the Son of God atributes that are only God's.
Put your faith on the Lord Jesus Christ and live according to His will. Put your faith on the sacrifice He did and not on an organization that has so many times contradict its own sayings (see http://www.reexamine.org/quotes/index.htm).
If you need help, I'm just another servant of God, but I'll do my best to help you understand who the Bible says Jesus really is. My Screen Name is 'eyess83'
In His name:
Israel Pino P.
PS: I'm sorry if it's hard for you to understand what I say, but I'm not a native English speaker. I'm a Chilean guy .
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M.J.
Israel,
You'll get no argument from me. The point you made is the very reason that the WTS started condemning the worship of Christ in the 1950s. And they now completely obscure the fact that they ever did advocate doing such a thing. The article that this thread is about made a point of showing just how "wrong" it is to do such a thing.
The worship of Christ was NEVER a point of disagreement, even within the early church. It was acknowledged even by the Arians (whose doctrine the JWs picked up 1500 years later) that Christ ought to be worshipped.
This thread isn't to debate the deity of Christ but to examine how the Watchtower goes about presenting its arguments in this article, which, in my opinion, are very flawed.
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AuldSoul
eyess83,
You have the same understanding I have on that point. Nothing in the Bible points to an organizational attachment as a requirement. The congregation wasn't the glue, the Holy Spirit was.
¡Bienvenidos!
Respetuosamente,
AuldSoul -
Franz
He would certainly seem to have Godlike abilities from our point of view. If you mean "God" as in an ALL knowing ALL powerful creature, then No. He is the chief or spokesman for the he'la'Sharim and commands many army's of course. I'm not sure of their purposes but they have been visiting Earth since the beginning and many other wise men and dignitaries also drive in celestial craft of the he'la'Sharim.
