the letter to timothy, only a letter to timothy?

by sowhatnow 11 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  sowhatnow

  so im here fine tooth combing the latest [mar 15th] watchtower propaganda leaflet the last study article, finding not a scripture in its correct context, [thats for another post, lol] when i thought, hmm, how many times does it say to preach in the bible.

  so i go to bible gateway, and type in 'preach'.[ not preached]
  

  i got 2nd timothy.

  i read the whole 2 books of timothy.

  an it appears to me, that paul, wh has his own agenda, wrote those words TO TIMOTHY, after all it says a letter to Tim,

  and no one else [vs 18 this mandate i commit to you]
  

  did I read wrong? .
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  Rattigan350

  Why and how is Paul our leader and someone we should follow?
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  leaving_quietly

  I have long thought the same thing. If taken at it's face value, the charge letter is indeed to Timothy, and HE was charged to preach the word. I don't believe Paul says that to anyone else in any other letter (I could be wrong, so don't quote me on that.)
  
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  Magnum

  Rattigan350, I don't think that's her point. To JWs, Paul is one to be listened to and followed, so I I think she's pointing out how Paul's words don't back up the JW doctrine of preaching by the rank and file.

  sowhatnow, your point makes sense to me. The letters were written to Timothy. I don't see why/how JWs could extrapolate to all some instruction made explicitly and specifically to Timothy.
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  sowhatnow

  yea , Paul says "I" an awful lot. I did this and that and say this and that. Paul is a woman hater too.
  

  my jw mom often will try to quote a scripture saying that Jesus said it, and Ill correct her and say, no Paul said that, and she will argue that whatever Paul said , it may as well been Jesus, because Jesus, told Paul to be the man of God that we shall follow. ok then.

  and she also insists it was Jesus who set up the christian church. sigh.
  

  anyway, so if we carefully read each letter, or even any book of the bible, we simply cannot apply it to any other audience than who it was written to, they had no concept of a future world who would read these texts.

  I have yet to find a scripture that tells we readers that tells us there is a three fold or even two fold prophesy .

  you would think if that was soooo important there would be ample evidence.

  what most people forget is this, at the time of Jesus and apostle Paul, no one had the book we have today, so when they were referring to the scriptures they were referring to what they only had which were the writings of a few Jewish scribes, and the mosaic law. and even at that so few people could read writing that they believed anything they were told was on a scroll.
  

  since we obviously are not under that law, it matters not to us.
  
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  eby

  This scripture is one of the things that began my awakening. We had just come from a Circuit Assembly where this scripture was used to prove everyone must preach. The following Wt. had just come out. After reading the following I began to give more consideration to context when reading the Bible.

  *** w71 11/15 p. 702 “Preach the Word”—Where and Why? ***

  "So from the context it is clear that Paul was not speaking about preaching to outsiders, but about preaching inside the congregation by one who was an overseer or “older man.” "

  Of course the article later said: "Since there must be this ‘preaching of the word’ inside the congregation, it is only logical that the same “word” be declared to outsiders".
  But that article opened a window for me.
  eby
  
  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  
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  Magnum

  sowhatnow: if we carefully read each letter, or even any book of the bible, we simply cannot apply it to any other audience than who it was written to, they had no concept of a future world who would read these texts.

  Good point. I agree. I believe the writers of the various books were concerned about their own situations - not the situations of people who would be living in the distant future from them. I recently told a longtime JW that when David wrote Ps 37:29, he wasn't thinking about a bunch of people who would be living 3000yrs in the future from him; he was thinking about his own situation. Most scholars agree (and even the Watchtower admits) that David was thinking of the Israelites' inheriting the Promised Land. Yet when JWs read that verse, they think David was thinking about them petting lions in paradise.

  Paul was writing a letter to Timothy. If the instructions, etc., were for all, then why isn't the letter addressed to all? In fact, I don't even understand why a god would write to his subjects in a format like the Bible - a collection of a bunch of different books written by different men in different time periods. It just seems so disorganized and confusing. And who's to even say which books should be included? There is much confusion and disagreement about that.
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  disposable hero of hypocrisy

  I'm wit ya magnum, (only just got your avatar and name combo, good work!)

  The answer keeps getting made at out Hall that it's soo wonderful that God chose imperfect men to record the bible cos we can relate to it. I want to stick my hand up and say NO, it'd be better if it was beamed down by angels then there wouldn't be inconsistencies and contradictions. Of course if that HAD happened then they'd all be answering about how wonderful it is that God didn't use imperfect humans to transmit his thoughts like all those other imperfect holy books, as mistakes would be bound to creep in. Confirmation bias at its finest.
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  Phizzy

  Although some Scholars argue for the Letters of First and Second Timothy, and Titus, that they were in fact written by Paul, since the 19th Century most Scholars feel they were written as "Pastoral" letters to the Church around 100C.E.

  They were in that case written by those of the "School of Paul" wishing to assert his Theology as the one that should hold sway over the Church. Bart Ehrmann may call them "forgeries" (?) for this reason.

  If this is correct, they were not then written to an individual, but to the whole Church, but as said above , there is no reason to seek a prophetic element, they are for their time, a time when "The End" had failed to occur, and the Church was getting bigger and prone to schism etc.

  As with all of the N.T, and of course the O.T there is no need to think any of it has any significance for us in the 21st Century, these writings are simply fascinating artifacts of their time.
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  Magnum

  Phizzy: Although some Scholars argue for the Letters of First and Second Timothy, and Titus, that they were in fact written by Paul, since the 19th Century most Scholars feel they were written as "Pastoral" letters to the Church around 100C.E.
  They were in that case written by those of the "School of Paul" wishing to assert his Theology as the one that should hold sway over the Church. Bart Ehrmann may call them "forgeries" (?) for this reason.
  If this is correct, they were not then written to an individual, but to the whole Church

  That could well be true, but the letters themselves say they were written by Paul and addressed to Timothy, so is the average Bible reader supposed to reason that the books were not written by Paul and were addressed to the entire Church?

  Problem for JWs: If the books were written by Paul and addressed to Timothy, then the instructions, etc. therein apply only to Timothy. If the books were not written by Paul and addressed to Timothy, then they are deceptive.