Saved by grace or by works? (page 3)

twinkletoes

I often think of these words taken from Micah 6 v 8 (NWT)

"And what is Jehovah asking back from you, but to exercise justice, and to love kindness and to be modest in walking with your God"

Not a lot to ask of us.

welcome to the board

Twinkletoes

Ever thought about (graceful works)? Any way you look at it, it's going to take some fancy foot work to please this God. "I form light and create darkness. I make peace, and I create evil. I, the Lord, do all these things." Isaiah 45:7 "If gods do evil then they are not gods." Euripides "Whevever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God." Thomas Paine "I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves." Albert Einstein

M.J.

Corollary to what sir 82 posted, how can the WTS advocate the position that salvation is an "undeserved kindness" from God yet at the same time say you need to work for your salvation?

I've heard the argument that a Christian must show appreciation through works in order to gain (read: "merit") salvation. But then it becomes a game of God saying, "Ok, who appreciates me enough to merit my kindness?"

The only way I know to cover both bases is to say that a true saving faith will result in Christian works, even if such a thought does not always appear to be what was on certain bible writers' minds.

Deputy Dog

rootofallevil

Romans 3:20

Therefore by works of law no flesh will be declared righteous before him, for by law is the accurate knowledge of sin.

D Dog

A Paduan

For example:
Matthew 24:13: "He that endures to the end will be saved"

And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because wickedness is multiplied, most men's love will grow cold. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

ie. he who holds to his belief and is who he is

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Of the rich man who asked what must be done to get saved: "Sell your belongings, and be my follower"

Sell your belongings AND YOU WILL HAVE TREASURE IN HEAVEN

It doesn't say "And you will be saved"

If your treasure is in heaven that is what you will seek

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take heed about how you hear for to him who has more will be given...

chipa

I am not sure if anyone said this before, but it seems prettly simple to me.. Galatians 2: 19-21

Especially verse 21 ..

NWT version

As for me, through law I died toward law, that I might become alive toward God. 20 I am impaled along with Christ. It is no longer I that live, but it is Christ that is living in union with me. Indeed, the life that I now live in flesh I live by the faith that is toward the Son of God, who loved me and handed himself over for me. 21 I do not shove aside the undeserved kindness of God; for if righteousness is through law, Christ actually died for nothing.

NIV Version

19For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

'THe law' is referrring to all the things that the Jews had been taught had to be done to be saved.. ..

It is simple, no , "if you look at it this way", or " it means this" or "some people think it means this"...

Plain and simple... If Righteousness could be gained by doing works then CHRIST DIED FOR NOTHING...

You can only be saved by Grace or " undeserved kindness" , which ever you look at it.. you can only be saved by that, not by works.

AuldSoul

James said "faith without works is dead" but he never said dead faith wasn't faith. We aren't saved by works, but a living faith will automatically produce works, from the heart not from a script produced by a publishing corporation's Governing Body.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

Saved by grace or by works?