JW's and the Cross (page 3)

jwfacts

blinkerdt
Who worships the cross? The WTS likes to make that claim, but how many people do you know that worship it? Have you ever asked anyone?
If you look at the article on my site you will see that historically the cross came into being to prevent people from idolatry, the early Christians feared images of Jesus would be worshipped, that is why know one knows what he looked like. Most people use the cross as a reminder of Jesus, and do not worship the cross itself.
It is just another example of the WTS using shallow unsupported reasoning and having a mass of followers accept it without question. Just like using Vines as the final authority on the word Stauros not being a Cross in Jesus day. There is ample evidence that Crosses were being used in Jesus day for impaling people, and so Stauros can be interpretted as cross.

deeskis

I liked Shazards analogy,

JW's don't believe in the cross, they prefer a phallic symbol!

D

A Paduan

jw's state only that worship of the cross is a sin. it is idolatry. as is worship of icons. it may be a point of debate whether having a cross counts as worship... but it's hardly a ridiculous statement. i don't understand what you find ridiculous

That's just jw speak - worship of an idol involves an image - ie. the imaginary; the belief in something that isn't what it is. A cross is a cross, and people worship Christ by the symbol of the cross But jehovah isn't God - now that's an image - created by jws, for jws - and THAT is idolatry.

and it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast so that the image of the beast should even speak

heathen

blinkerdt---- I said it was ridiculous to try to hold up an argument from people that claimed to be scholars and clearly are not over the meaning of a greek word that is used in the bible . All the real scholars are agreeing that stauros was the word used for a cross . I said nothing about using it in worship , I agree that the use of the cross in worship is idolotry . The commandment on that was to never make a graven image of anything on earth, sea or in the heavens. Idol is in my websters is an object of passionate devotion . The apostle John clearly wrote warnings about guarding yourself from idols . There is no mention of the cross being the symbol of christianity in the bible . I think the WTBTS replaced the cross with a printing corporation .

Hellrider

This is what I find to be really hilarious about the whole thing: That the JWs can`t understand that their belief that Jesus "couldn`t have been killed on a cross because it`s a pagan symbol" - is a belief that is the result of 2000 years of Christianity! - With all the modern knowledge about the origin of the cross, knowledge that the jews living in Palestine, the Romans and the greeks did not have at the time this all happened. And as so many have allready pointed out, "stavros" means both crosses (of all shapes) and stakes. So basically, the only thing that could guarantee that Jesus did not die on a cross, would be if "Jahve had fixed it so he didn`t". This is the one and only argument I can "accept", but I can`t really accept this argument either, because it is so stupid. If Jahve had intervened in some way, wouldn`t they have made a big point of this in the Bible? "And as the Romans were about to crucify the Lord, a voice appeared from the heavens, saying Do not nail my boy up on that thing, use the stake laying over there instead, or I will unleash the seven plagues on thine asses again". On the other hand, the fact that Jesus was killed by being nailed up on something made out of wood, was in itself ... blasphemous! - so why the big deal about the shape of it? The fulfilling of OT-prophecy lies in the fact that Jesus was nailed up on a tree, or something made out of tree, and this was in itself a fulfillment of a prophecy that meant to say that they would make a mockery out of the Messiah, when he arrived! The whole point of it was to kill him in a derogatory, blasphemous manner ("cursed is he who hangs on a tree...")! And he was killed in a blasphemous, derogatory manner, and this in itself would more than indicate that God wouldn`t think it was "heresy" to kill him on a ...blasphemous instrument. Because the instrument, no matter what shape, was meant to be blasphemous and derogatory in the first place. And with this in mind, why not the cross?

Virgochik

Mom always said, the cross was Jesus' torture stake. Would you wear a replica of a gun that killed your loved one? So, why wear a cross or hang one on the wall, bla-bla.

Tyre

if I use chopsticks I will always use it rather than hang it on the wall.

just my 2 cents

FairMind

The JW mind has been conditioned to believe anything the other religions teach is bad because the religions are bad.

James Free

The Greek word can indeed mean cross, tree or stake. FACT

Rutherford went further and said Jesus was not killed on a cross. However, since the word can have more than one meaning it is impossible to say for sure. The same goes for the people who claim the JW's are definitely wrong and it WAS a cross. Fact is, it is not possible to prove either way.

As for Rutherford's reasoning that the shape had pagan roots, including the worship of Tammuz, he is right. However, that does not prove anything about Jesus' execution. If Satan oversaw the killing of Jesus it would be a good reason to do just that, for the irony.

Today JW's try to defend a position that cannot be proven. In turn, others try to prove the opposite with equal failure. And that's the way it is...

heathen

Both side can argue pretty soundly over the issue but the use of a cross in worship was never called for . Christianity did not have this symbol until emperor constantine decided he needed a symbol to unite his kingdom . The same was true with hitlers use of the greek cross . Even the bad guys like to use the symbol .

JW's and the Cross

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