Is 'Jehovah' a group of gods?

by Pleasuredome 7 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Pleasuredome
    Pleasuredome
    most of us should know that Elohim of the genesis was 'gods' and even quoted them saying 'let us make man in our our imge and likeness'. i've not seen any other references to God actually being the 'gods'. but here is a something i've just found:
    in the KJV 1 samual 4:8 the philistines say, "Woe unto us! who shall deliver us out of the hand of these mighty Gods? these are the Gods that smote the Egyptians with all the plagues in the wilderness."

    in the NWT, it says, "Woe to us! who will save us out of the hand of this majestic God? this is the God that was the smiter of Egypt with every sort of slaughter in the wilderness"

    so does this go to support again that, jehovah is is not one god but a group of them? also shows again where the WTS changes the words as an when it pleases them.

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider

    Well..the trinity explains those things pretty good, imo.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    It is a pretty complex issue inasmuch as the OT text itself is, in a sense, the cradle of "God". The earlier/lower strata of the earliest stories are clearly grounded in polytheism, whereas the later/higher strata reflect a monotheistic edition (writing or rewriting). The result is a text that is monotheistic at face value but that often makes no sense without a polytheistic background.

    In the older polytheistic context, Yhwh is definitely not a group of gods, but a god (a son of El, the Father of gods and men) among others. The best OT polytheistic synthesis is found (thanks to the diverging corrections of the Hebrew Masoretic text [MT] and the Greek Septuagint [LXX], with the confirmation of a Qumran manuscript) in Deuteronomy 32:8f:

    When the Most High apportioned the nations,
    when he divided humankind,
    he fixed the boundaries of the peoples
    according to the number of the gods (originally 'sons of El'; MT 'sons of Israel,' LXX 'angels of God')
    Yhwh's own portion was his people,
    Jacob his allotted share.

    Here Yhwh is the patron god of Israel, equal to the other gods (siblings) in charge of other nations, as also appears in Judges 11:24:

    Should you not possess what your god Chemosh gives you to possess? And should we not be the ones to possess everything that our god Yhwh has conquered for our benefit?

    But as polytheism became henotheism Yhwh was increasingly identified with El, the head of the divine assembly -- he is the God of gods, the Lord of gods, the King of gods (Deuteronomy, Psalms). At a later stage he becomes the monotheistic "God" -- there is no other god. At this later stage he is not only one of the 'elohim (real plural), a 'elohim (real singular in spite of the plural form, equally found for other gods) -- but THE 'elohim which may be analysed as combining the plural and singular senses: "God" uniting, as it were, the former "gods" into himself.

    Normally in Hebrew the singular and plural 'elohim are distinguished by the number agreement of verbs and adjectives (that is, when there is a verb or an adjective). And the monotheistic redaction has left the polytheistic plural in many places, especially when the expression was supposed to reflect a non-Israelite opinion. This is the case in 1 Samuel 4:8 (the Philistines):

    Who can deliver us from the power of these (plural) mighty (plural) gods ('elohim)? These (plural) are the gods ('elohim) who struck (plural) the Egyptians with every sort of plague in the wilderness.

    This is also the case when a supposed "monotheist" is viewed as adapting to polytheistic speech, e.g. Jacob in Genesis 20:13:

    And when God / the gods caused me to wander (plural) from my father's house...

    Or perhaps Jacob was regarded as a polytheist, since the same thing happens in Genesis 35:7 in the narrator's speech:

    it was there that God / the gods had revealed himself / themselves (plural) to him when he fled from his brother.

    Plural is also found when Israelite "apostates" are speaking, e.g. Exodus 32:1ff:

    the people gathered around Aaron, and said to him, "Come, make gods for us, who shall go (plural) before us...

    Many other cases are ambiguous for a lack of verb or adjective in either number, e.g. Genesis 3:5 ("knowing" is in the plural, but can refer either to the "gods" or to "you"); 21:22,33; 40:8; 41:16,38; 42:18...

    In short, I think the equivalence "Yhwh = the gods" may reflect, not the original identity of Yhwh, but his later monotheistic status as explained in a wider polytheistic context (Yhwh = God = the total sum of the divine realm which the polytheists "misconstrue" as "gods").

  • VM44
    VM44

    "thanks to the diverging corrections of the Hebrew Masoretic text [MT] and the Greek Septuagint [LXX],"

    Fascinating, where can one read more about this "divergence"?

    --VM44

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/66342/1.ashx

    http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf

    The last article gives a good summary of textual evidence, and tries to make sense of the original reading from a monotheistic perspective (imho failing to take into account the history of beliefs, i.e. polytheism > henotheism > monotheism: the very reason why the text was "corrected" in the first place is that it was deemed incompatible with monotheism).

  • Valient
    Valient

    I find this very sad. We live in a time of great discovery and yet people are still groping around for new information. Jesus is

    either the Greatest Liar or the Greatest Man of Truth; Pilate said,' What is Truth?' People are still pondering that very question today.

    If YOU are interested in life after death then YOU should examine as many 'spiritual' sources as YOU can; IF not then don't worry about

    it, when YOU go out the door you'll remember YOU don't believe in this fate crap. I promise you, you'll fill as right as rain. Don't worry.

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider

    That`s pretty fascinating, Narkissos. It would also explain Yhwhs behavior in the OT, his ...wild youth, behaving like a drunken, jealous, violent teenage boy. And then he grows up, and becomes a father, settles down, becomes more mature. Cool. It`s a good story after all.

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    Narkissos,

    Thanks for that artful explanation. Every time this material is laid out it touches someone who is trying to put the pieces of the great historical puzzle together. As more and more get it, the consciousness of society in general is bracketed forward to a new stage of perception. Is it possible that we as a societal group are slowly emerging from our three (or four, or five) thousand year old mythological consciousness into a new sense of spiritual reality? If so, you are playing a part in the process.

    Steve

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