Do you still believe?

by Chimene 154 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  startingover

  For me this says it all:

  God is simply a belief, an imagination, an invention of the human mind.
  
  There is no evidence that god exists, therefore he does NOT exist. The complete lack of evidence over all of human history is proof he does not exist. I don't go with the agnostic view that "there's no evidence that god exists, therefore he might".
  
  I am convinced that those who have had some kind of "personal revelation" have either faulty brain chemistry, are delusional, or just plain nuts. Some choose to believe in god because they can't cope with reality without a crutch. Many (like a good percentage of JW's) say they believe in god but in reality don't. I was one of those, which flies in the face of "Elders are appointed by Holy Spirit" eh. :-)
  
  But hey, if belief in the delusion of god helps you cope with life a little easier, then who am I to judge? Just don't try to impose your belief on me, and stay out of politics.
  
  Mackin.

  My problem with Christians is that they are constantly trying to spread their beliefs. At least in the U.S., I can never remember turning on the TV on Sunday morning and seeing anything but Christianity being spread. As far as those born and raised in the organization being more likely to become athiest, I posed this question earlier here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/100900/1.ashx
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  Chimene

  Oh, thank you Startinover. I wasn't a member then. I went through the thread. I think you asked the question much better than I did, thank you
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  startingover

  Something else about this thread. Since figuring out the JW scam, I have tried to be open minded (which BTW I don't think is really possible) and examine other beliefs.

  Please don't take this as anything but my own personal observation, but for some time I have read JamesThomas's posts with interest. I have read them and reread them, like the ones on this thread. But for the life of me I can't fathom what you are saying. I'd like to but for whatever reason I just can't connect. Am I alone in feeling that way?
• 

  LittleToe

  IAGN:

  I think we have a sheltered existence in Western developed countries and if we had to experience the kind of life the majority of people on this planet live, we might not feel all warm and fuzzy about God, or Jesus, or whatever.

  And yet ironically people in those countries do feel all warm and fuzzy about Him, but people (of whom you seem to include yourself) who live a "sheltered existance" are predominantly the ones who feel that He's harsh. Go figure...
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  poppers

  startingover said, "Please don't take this as anything but my own personal observation, but for some time I have read JamesThomas's posts with interest. I have read them and reread them, like the ones on this thread. But for the life of me I can't fathom what you are saying. I'd like to but for whatever reason I just can't connect. Am I alone in feeling that way?"
  JamesThomas is pointing to something which cannot be put into words, but is the very foundation of what you actually are - you ARE what he is pointing towards in your essential nature, that's why you are drawn to them. You cannot understand with your MIND what he is getting at, but you can FEEL a resonance with it because where he is speaking FROM and TO is the very same thing.
  Most people who struggle with what JT is saying are also trying to understand it with their minds. The open secret is to not rely on the mind at all because the mind is nothing but accumulated ideas and condtioning. Instead, be fully present with what is here right now in front of you - that's enough, really. Be fully present with what is and then be alert to when the mind comes in and makes judgments or slaps labels on what is; when you catch yourself doing that, simply return to what is actually appearing before you. Try doing this while outside and surrounded by nature - this may be a good first step. Later, you will be able to do this in every situation. The effect of this is to keep you centered in the present moment, the only moment that exists. When you are consciously in the present moment the "you" that you take yourself to be is no longer dominating the scene, for that "you" cannot exist except as a concept in the mind. When fully present, the mind is at rest and there is an openness and acceptance of everything and everyone around you. As an additional aid, I would recommend reading Eckhart Tolle's book, "The Power of Now". He gives advice on how to remain fully present.
  Best wishes to you,
  poppers
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  startingover

  Poppers,

  You said:

  The open secret is to not rely on the mind at all because the mind is nothing but accumulated ideas and condtioning. Instead, be fully present with what is here right now in front of you - that's enough, really. Be fully present with what is and then be alert to when the mind comes in and makes judgments or slaps labels on what is

  Maybe I'm doing that without realizing and trying to read more into it than need be.

  Or maybe I just don't get it, I'll have to contemplate it some more. Or is the contemplating part messing me up?
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  Chimene

  Oh boy, and when trying to read and take this all in, I just had a WT and Awake shoved under my nose
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  poppers

  startingover, yes - contemplating this takes you into the mind, and when in the mind one will miss what is being pointed to. The mind will mull things over based on what it already knows, trying to come to some sort of conclusion. What is being pointed to has nothing to do with coming to any conclusion. Your essential nature is already the case, it is here now, always. Mental activity draws attention away from that essential nature.
  Let yourself be fully absorbed in whatever is presenting itself to you, and return to that when you notice thoughts arising. I'm sure you have some sort of hobby that you do which you become totally absorbed in. When those times happen you will notice that "time" has a way of standing still, and that "you" aren't present as an idea in your head. Rather, you will notice that you are simply fully present with no mind activity at all - there is just the activity going on, and there is the experience of peace. These momentary instances are examples of returning to your natural state, but there can be a continuous meeting of everything while in the natural state, and this is what JT is pointing to.
  poppers
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  itsallgoodnow

  And yet ironically people in those countries do feel all warm and fuzzy about Him, but people (of whom you seem to include yourself) who live a "sheltered existance" are predominantly the ones who feel that He's harsh. ; Go figure...

  Sorry if pointing out gross injustices in this world put you on the defensive. I'll try to forget that most of this world is starving to death and remember that good things happen to good people. I'll be glad I live in a predominantly Christian country and that God is taking care of us, me included, even though I'm undeserving of his blessings.
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  stillconcerned

  I believe in Sixy......cuz I've talked to him.