Don't know who wrote it but it is a bible compiling of many different books. Do not know who translated it either. What I have found it is a Greek Bible but right now do not know for sure. I am curious what it is about it is a mystery.
Ever Hear of the Kolbrin Bible?
by skyman 23 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Abaddon
skyman
You jumped to a conclusion because your brain is stuck in negativity land putting down a person you don't even know.
Íf you don't like having data you present criticised or ridiculed, here's an idea. Use better data. As for knowing you. I've read enough of your posts to know that this post was fairly representative of the way you look at things.
I do not believe for a second that the earth is going to end in 2012.
No? Good. However, you do immediately start drawing comparisons as though you think the information is credible;
The Kolbrin Bible gives the time of the destroys return and guess what it due to reapear in 2012.
Remember the mayans say a Red comet is coming in Dec. 2012 that signifies the end of this great age of man.
If you don't want people to think you are credulous and blindly accepting of whatever you turn up (this is what it sounds like), present the data in a different fashion that doesn't make it look like you're leaping to conclusions.
It has not ended yet because of some Asteroid the collection of books that compile the Kolbrin says this asteroid comes around every 3800 years and if the book is correct the Earth sure looks fine to me, so if it is right we have nothing to sorry about.
Why would it be right? Why do you make this assumption? Can you see how even when rebutting you phrase things in a way which makes it look like you give them credence?
As regards a reading of the Kolbrin Bible I will read it. I think it is interesting how closely the Kolbrin Bible mimics the Mayan, how could you not be curious?
Unless it has a provenance, i.e. is a really old book and not something made up in the past ciouple of centuries, why should I be interested in it. If it is only a few hundred years old, then it is a fake.
You'd get as much insight into the past from reading it as you'd get into Hiler by reading Hiler's fake diaries.
How with an ocean apart could two worlds be so close with their legends and future prophecies?
Because it is a fake? Occams razor!
Also of interest is the different account of the legend of the flood.
Why is a fake Flood legend of any interest?
If you have ever looked at my previous posts you would know that I do not believe the flood ever happened, only a damn fool could believe that.
Maybe it's the way you communicate, and I need to learn your credulity is not actual, only apparent, and that you just like talking about this shit. I have a very dear friend who goes that whacky wobbily step further...
Recently their has been proof found in Egypt that shows the Exodus is true.
Now that I WOULD be interested to see! As far as I am aware there is as much physical evidence for a 40 year wander in the Wilderness as there is for Line Dancing lessons on the moon.
What I want to read is what the Kolbrin Bible has to say about what caused the plagues because the Kolbrin it says the comet caused the plagues not GOD.
Yes, but if it is a fake...? And please explain your theories of how a comet would duplicate the Plauges. And why do you believe the plauges are true?
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Leolaia
I think it is interesting how closely the Kolbrin Bible mimics the Mayan, how could you not be curious? How with an ocean apart could two worlds be so close with their legends and future prophecies?
Ummm....because it was written in the 20th century and the author was influenced by popular culture characterizations of 2012? You seem to here be accepting uncritically its claim to be a genuinely ancient work. Would you also accept the Book of Mormon as a work genuinely written in pre-Columbian America many centuries ago, or 2 Baruch as penned by the actual scribe of Jeremiah, or Jubilees as actually written by Moses on Mount Sinai? When I last visited Japan, I went to the Tomb of Christ in the town of Shingo, and at the musuem there they have on display "Christ's Last Will and Testament", which was allegedly copied from a copy from a copy from a copy "discovered" in the 1930s. I find no reason at all to believe that such a document was ever written by Jesus Christ, and the lack of any original manuscript is of course a sign that this is a modern hoax (another would be its actual content, which relates a fanciful story of Christ travelling to Japan by way of Alaska). Other people would similarly question the lack of any original manuscript for the Book of Mormon (where are the golden plates?), and the Kolbrin Bible similarly claims to be "translated" from ancient manuscripts that no one has purportedly ever seen. What is its provenance? That is what anyone asks when examining something that claims to be ancient but is a modern hoax (think of the James Ossuary, or the Jehoash Inscription, or any antique). Remember when the Salamander Letter came out of nowhere in the mid-1980s, lacking any genuine provenance, but turned out to be a hoax concocted by the "discoverer" of the letter. Chemical tests revealed the hoax, but internal evidence in the language and phrasing of the letter also showed it to be no early 19th-century document but a modern forgery. I see no independent evidence (at least from what I have seen online) that the Kolbrin Bible existed before the late 20th century, and its acquaintance with ideas current in the 20th century (including Anglo-Israelism, but also the stuff that has already been mentioned in this thread), its dependence on texts discovered only in the 20th century (such as the Coptic Gospel of Thomas, which is clearly more original than the adaptations made of it in the Kolbrin Bible), and its anachronisms of the period it purportedly represents all pretty much date the book to the second half of the 20th century....
Now whether it is worth reading is an entirely different matter....There are often many important insights found in fiction and pseudymous writing, and merits of each literary work should be judged accordingly....
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LittleToe
Legolas:
Skyman is unfortunately using the term "bible" in its precise sense of a compilation of books. This has nothing to do with the Middle-Eastern compliation that we usually call the Bible".Skyman:
You jumped to a conclusion because your brain is stuck in negativity land putting down a person you don't even know.
Is that a case of counter-judgementalism?
Maybe folks are a little concerned about being gullable again, as well as shelling out $82 for a modern work of fiction passing itself off as ancient
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Leolaia
To give one example, consider http://www.thekolbrin.com/kolbrin_b11c3.html:
Jesus was the son of Miriam called Mary, by Joseph. His brothers were Jacob, Joseph, Simon and James. He was born at Bethlehem. In the days of His youth the land rang with the exploits of Judas the Galilean, who preached that there was no ruler but God; he was called the Teacher of Righteousness in his day.
Here the author is influenced by Acts 5:37, which mentions a Messianic claimant called "Judas the Galilean" who was active "in the days of the census," the same census of Quirinius mentioned in Luke 2:2 (putting Jesus' birth in AD 6, long after Herod's death). But the author is also influenced by Josephus, Antiquities 18.23 who says that Judas taught that "God is to be their only Ruler and Lord". According to Josephus, Judas was the founder of the Zealots. Finally, the title "Teacher of Righteousness" comes from the Dead Sea Scrolls, and refers to the founder of the Essenes who lived 170-150 BC, long before the time of Jesus and Judas. The author is thus here mixing material from Josephus and Acts, and improbably identifying this Zealot founder with the Essene founder from generations earlier; the use of this term, btw, fixes the date of this passage as after the rediscovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in the 1940s.
Joseph, Jesus' father, died when Jesus was sixteen. Mary, His mother, did not like His inwardness, His long silences and His solitary habits. She rebuked Him for being a tardy breadwinner, but this was unjust, for He excelled in His craft.
This is an attempt to fill in the "lost years" of Jesus. The word "breadwinner" is a modern term, dating only to the early 19th century (first use in 1821: OED).
Jesus had spells of rapture and His male kinsfolk declared He was out of His mind, so they sought to have Him put under restraint. But the womenfolk said He was harmless, and in cases such as this their words coloured the law of the land.
The word "womenfolk" looks archaic, and possibly is intentionally so, but it actually is a modern word, dating again to the 19th century (1833: OED).
Jesus early became a wandering carpenter and then joined the Nasarines.
Mark 6:2-3 refers to Jesus as the son of a "carpenter" in many English translations (including the KJV, NIV), but the actual term in Greek is tektón "handyman" and thus the Kolbrin Bible reflects influence from English translation.
Then Jesus went into the wilderness beside the Jordan. He joined the Society of Saints, which was beside the Sea of Heavy Salt.
This is dependent on the notion that Jesus was part of the Qumran Dead Sea community, a notion that again dates to after the 1950s.
"I am He of whom it is written 'He shall judge the poor rightly and reprove those who oppress them. He shall smite the Earth with the rod of His mouth and slay the wicked with the words that issue from His mouth' ".
The introductory formula is identical to those used by Joseph Smith in his "inspired" translation of Matthew (the exact phrasing is otherwise very rare). What follows is a quotation from Isaiah 11:4, which has been adapted from the KJV: "But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth, and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked". Note the same phrases: "shall he/he shall judge the poor", "reprove", "he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth," "slay the wicked". Other translations do not make the same choices in wording, suggesting that the author of the Kolbrin Bible used the KJV or a revision of it.
He wrought cures, as did many others in those times. The Levites put out that He did not as they, but by the power of the Prince of Darkness. But Jesus said that such was blasphemy, as the healing spirit of God was strong within Him. Therefore, such an accusation was a sin, but they mocked Him.
The phrase "Prince of Darkness" is not a formation found in any genuinely ancient texts I've seen ("Belial," "angel of darkness," "ruler of the authority of the air", "ruler of this world" are examples of actually occurring terms), but it is widely used in modern texts to refer to Satan, and dates back only to the 1500s according to the OED.
He was a true man, a good organiser, strong, alert and resourceful.
Another modernism (1801: OED).
Jesus came and was like the slasher which clears away the useless undergrowth in the forest of life.
A metaphor that is alien to the Middle East.
A man asked Jesus, "Lord, what does it mean when it is written that the iniquities of the fathers shall be visited upon the children?"
Again reflecting the translation choices of the KJV: "The LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me" (Exodus 20:5; cf. 34:7, Deuteronomy 5:9).
Split a billet of wood and God will be there. Lift up a stone and you will find Him".
This is a quotation of Thomas 77:2: "Split a piece of wood and I am there. Lift up a stone and you will find me." This saying was completely lost to the world until the Greek fragments of Thomas were uncovered at the end of the 19th century. This quotation however precedes a cluster of quotations from the Gospel of Thomas in the Kolbrin Bible, which reflect not the Greek fragments but the entire Coptic version, which was only discovered in the 1940s.
But nothing can be made holy by men alone, neither can anything wholly of Earth be holy. That which is wholly of and for God is holy, the place wholly for God is holy and the person who lives wholly for God is Holy, but where on Earth can such absoluteness be found?"
An assonance that works only in modern English.
If within a circle of stones or before a symbolic image the soul of man may be stirred to attunement, then God will not absent Himself because of the Nature of the Place.
A neologism by William Alger (in The Solitudes of Nature and of Man, 1866), who referred to "the healthy attunement of the discordant faculties and forces of the soul" (Vol. 4, p. 348). The Kolbrin Bible's use of the term is also strikingly similar to that of Alger, as referring to the attunement of the soul.
Mary said to Jesus, 'To whom can Your Disciples be likened?" Jesus said, 'They are like children at play in a field which belongs to a stranger, and when the owner comes they say, This is our field, therefore convey it to us'".
This is lifted from Thomas 21:1-2, available only in the Coptic version discovered in Nag Hammadi in the 1940s: "Mary said to Jesus, 'Whom are your disciples like?' He said, 'They are like children who have settled in a field which is not theirs. When the owners of the field come, they will say, 'Let us have back our field.' " Note that the original itnroductory formula is retained intact, while the logion of Thomas 77 had been worked into the text in the Kolbrin version (omitting the formula). This is the first of a block of quotations from Thomas.
Thomas said, "If the spirit brought the body of flesh into being, it is a marvel". Jesus said, "It would be a much greater miracle had the body brought the spirit into being, for the lesser cannot create the greater. I marvel how this great wealth of beauty can dwell in such a mean habitation. But to he who has goodness in his heart, goodness shall be given; he who lacks goodness shall be stripped of what he has".
This is an adaptation from Thomas 29. The author of the Kolbrin Bible has turned this logion into a dialogue, but reveals the source as the Gospel of Thomas by placing Thomas 29:1a into the mouth of "Thomas".
Jesus also said, "Just as it is impossible for any man to stretch two bows or mount two horses, so is it impossible for a man to serve two masters".
Adapted from Thomas 47:1-2.
The disciples asked, "Is circumcision a good thing?" Jesus replied, "If it were would not children be born circumcised from the mother's womb? Only circumcision in the spirit confers true benefit".
Adapted from Thomas 53:1-2, retaining the dialogic introductory formula ("the disciples asked"). Note that this block of quotations from Thomas follows the same order as Thomas: 21, 29, 47, 53. And while the rest of this chapter of Kolbrin is a mishmash of narrative and discourses, this section (which just so happens to correspond to Thomas in content) follows the same "sayings gospel" literary form as Thomas.
When asked concerning accounting, Jesus said, "Give to Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God that which is God's. Give Me what is justly mine and keep for yourselves only that which is rightly your due. Deal fairly with all men and shun the morals of the marketplace. Do not become like the Samaritans who loving a tree hate its fruits, or loving the fruit hate the tree. The Pharisee is like a dog sleeping in the manger from whence the oxen eat. It cannot eat what is in the manger, neither will it let the oxen eat".
This passage conflates the sayings in Thomas 100 , 43, and 102, presenting first the saying about paying Caesar's things to Caesar (Thomas 100:2 is unique for adding "give me what is mine," which is adopted by the author of the Kolbrin Bible, who adds his own "keep for yourselves onyl that which is rightly your due"), then the saying about the Jews loving the tree and hating its fruit and loving the fruit but hating the tree (in which the Kolbrin author changes "Jews" to "Samaritans") in Thomas 43, and the saying about the Pharisees sleeping like a dog in a manger eating what cattle eat (Thomas 102).
Jesus said, "The Kingdom of Heaven is like a woman carrying a jar of good wine. Being careless she puts the jar down heavily and crashes it, and when she resumes her way the wine spills out behind her on the road, but she blithely continues on her way unaware of the spillage. When she enters the house, the master takes the wine jar and finds it empty". The disciples asked what this could mean, and Jesus replied, "When you possess the good things of the Kingdom of Heaven, do not let them slip away".
This is the Parable of the Broken Jar (Thomas 97), unknown to scholars until its rediscovery in the Gospel of Thomas. The author of the Kolbrin Bible substituted "grain" with "wine", and supplies his own interpretation of the parable. This is the end of the section plagiarizing Thomas; not coincidentally, the literary form of the chapter also switches from sayings collection to narrative, telling a story about Jesus interacting with a priest named Levi at the Temple:
Jesus took the disciples who were with Him into the Court of the Hebrews, which was an inner place, and a warden, a priest named Levi, stopped them, saying to Jesus, "Are You an ignorant man? Do You not know it is forbidden to walk here in the presence of holy things without first purifying yourselves? See, those who follow You have not even washed their feet. They enter here defiled by the world".
Then Jesus stopped and said to Levi, "Concern yourself with your own state rather than with ours". The priest replied, "I am clean. Having bathed in David's pool, going down by one set of steps and coming up by another; only having done this and donned clean clothes have I come here". Jesus said, "Lord, have mercy on the blind! You have washed in standing water which may have been befouled by dogs, and scrubbed your outer skin as harlots", singing girls and vain men do who are full of vileness inside. But My disciples and I have little need for outer forms of ritual cleanliness, being clean within, for we have washed in the living waters of the spirit".
This story is taken directly from the gospel fragment Oxyrhynchus 840, discovered in 1905. This fragment relates the following episode: "And taking <the disciples> along, he led them into the inner sanctuary itself, and began walking about in the temple precinct. This Pharisee, a leading priest, Levi by name, also entered, ran into them, and said to the Savior, 'Who gave you permission to wander around in this inner sanctuary and lay eyes on these sacred vessels, when you have not performed your ritual bath, and your disciples have not even washed their feet?'....And the Savior stood up immediately, with his disciples, and replied, 'Since you are here in the temple, I take it that you are clean.' He replies to him, 'I am clean. I bathed in the pool of David, you know, by descending into it by one set of steps and coming up out of it by another. I also changed into white and ritually clean clothes. Only then did I come here and lay eyes on these sacred vessels.' In response the Savior said to him, 'Damn the blind who won't see. You bathe in these stagnant waters where dogs and pigs wallow day and night. And you wash and scrub the outer layer of skin, just like prostitutes and dance-hall girls, who wash and scrub and perfume and paint themselves to entice men, while inwardly they are crawling with scorpions and filled with all sorts of corruption. But my disciples and I, you say we are unbathed, have bathed in lively, life-giving water that comes down from [above]."
What is especially interesting is that not only does the Kolbrin passage duplicate the Oxyrhynchus 840 fragment almost word or word, but it begins and ends almost exactly where the fragment begins and ends. Now, this is purely an accident of preservation, of what pieces of the papyrus did not break off, get eaten by insects, etc. More than anything else, this shows that the author of the Kolbrin Bible was dependent on this source.
The Kolbrin Bible presents itself as a pastiche of material taken from various sources, with a well-defined section from the Gospel of Thomas, followed almost immediately with a pericope from the Oxyrhynchus 840 gospel (using only the fragment that survived into the 20th century), and with other material reflecting language from the King James Version and modernisms in language that betrays the book's recent origin.
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stillajwexelder
as usual Leolaia your research and hardwork amazes me - thankyou so much
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skyman
All you guys tickle the shyt out of me. You guys make me laugh. I know nothing about the book. I do not claim anything. Leolaia maybe your are right maybe you are not, I don't know. But I am going to look into the book, then I will post what I have found and what I think. By the way I can buy an e book for $6.95.
Leolaia you are the brightest person on the form, you must have read the book many, many times to be so wise. The part about Jesus is only one book of many? I haven't read it yet like you so I can't say whether there it has any merit or not. I could do the same as you and put all sorts of quotes down then comment on the quotes, making myself look like an expert on the subject like you do, on so many threads here on JWD. I am sure the 15 minutes of research you did using Google makes you an expert with all your wisdom. How could I think other wise? Anyone that says anything different has to be a fool because you so are so knowledgeable on everything. I am just a mere human in your shadow.
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LittleToe
Sounds like you have a little more than $6.95 invested in it
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Leolaia
Sorry I tried to give a detailed explanation of my assessment of the work. I see it was a waste of time trying to contribute to this thread, for my intention was not at all to make you feel insulted, but rather trying to explain why this looks all the world like a modern work. If that is to be ridiculed, then I'll remember next time to just state my opinion without bothering to give any reasons or evidence why I have that opinion...
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Enigma One
Abaddon and Leolalia, thanks for all your hard work. As usual, the start of the thread seemed to be a complete ranting illusion of the brain dead. Your posts merely proved the assertion I had "jumped" to in reading the opening post. Thanks again you two.