Memorial Partaker numbers must stop before Armageddon comes.

by gumby 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • gumby
    gumby

    According to statements in the past from the society regarding the time when those in the graves worthy of an earthly resurection will recieve their reward....it seems the idiots didn't think of something that would have made a bit more sense.

    In the article below....they state the resurection cannot take place UNTIL all those of the annointed class are dead and resurected first......yet they continually printed the numbers of those still left on earth while at the SAME TIME....preached the end was anytime now. Kinda dumb ain't it?

    w83 3/15 21-2 "Be Joyful Forever" ***
    TRULY, we can be most joyful that the Messianic King, Christ Jesus, now reigns in a heavenly “Jerusalem.” This is the city “belonging to heaven” mentioned in Hebrews chapter 11, and for which Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ‘reached out.’ They “publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land” of Canaan, for they were earnestly seeking “the city having real foundations, the builder and maker of which city is God.” But as with the “great crowd,” who today have hope of everlasting life on earth, the “fulfillment of the promise” to those men of old must wait until anointed Christians have received their inheritance in the heavenly Kingdom.—Hebrews 11:8-16, 39, 40; Revelation 7:9.

    I'd guess the memorial partakers in 83' was between 8,000 - 9,000. Yet dubs at that time still thought armageddon could come anytime.....even though the article said the annointed had to all be dead first. You'd think they would at least exclude the number of partakers since this would leave all dubs clueless as to how many of the annointed are actually alive and make the end seem more imminent.

    Gumby

  • luna2
    luna2

    Wasn't there a time when they said some of the "annointed" would live through Armageddy so they'd be around to help get things started in the "new system"? Or was that old passé light?

    The "all the annointed must die first" light is really very handy. The numbers of annointed have remained virtually the same for decades. I guess this final remnant of t he remnant is having lots of trouble remaining faithful in their old age and they're being kicked off the annointed list to make room for younger folks. They can stretch this out for quite a few more years this way....until they can come up with some newer light that eliminates the whole annointed thing altogether.

  • beavis
    beavis

    It is interesting that there are still around 8000 partakers. I believe that there are governing body members who are in their early sixties. When in the wide world of sports did they get their "calling"? I guess there are a lot of unfaithful holy one that makes it necessary to replenish the 144,000 numbers.

    I do belive in spooks, i do believe in spooks, i do believe in spooks, i do, i do , i do

  • blondie
    blondie

    And once again the WTS speaks out of both sides of their mouth:

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    w00 1/15 p. 13 "Keep on the Watch" ***

    Sixth, the number of genuine anointed disciples of Christ is dwindling, though some will evidently still be on earth when the great tribulation begins. Most of the remnant are quite elderly, and over the years the number of those who are truly anointed has been getting smaller. Yet, referring to the great tribulation, Jesus stated: "Unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short." (Matthew 24:21, 22) Evidently, then, some of Christ’s "chosen ones" will still be on earth when the great tribulation begins.

    Gumby, this has mystified me too. I would think that all the 144,000 have to be dead and in heaven to take part in the marriage of the bride of Christ. But when does the marriage take place according to the WTS:

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    w98 10/15 p. 22 A Jerusalem True to Its Name ***

    Ahead of us too is a truly momentous event—the heavenly marriage of the Lord Jesus Christ to his bride of 144,000 citizens of "New Jerusalem." (Revelation 19:7; 21:2) We cannot say exactly when that climactic union will be completed, but it certainly will be a joyous event

    ***

    w96 1/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***

    Most of these anointed ones have already died, with heavenly life in view. Some are still alive on earth. All eagerly look forward to the heavenly "marriage of the Lamb." The Bible links that marriage to the time of the approaching great tribulation—the destruction of Babylon the Great, and then the elimination of the rest of Satan’s system.—Revelation 18:2-5; 19:2, 7, 11-21; Matthew 24:21.

    ***

    w95 7/1 p. 14 Christian Witnesses With Heavenly Citizenship ***

    Picture the joy in heaven when the last of them finally receives his heavenly reward. Now, at last, "the marriage of the Lamb" can take place! That royal heavenly organization will then be complete.—Revelation 19:6-8.

    ***

    w93 5/1 p. 26 Deliverance at the Revelation of Jesus Christ ***

    remaining on earth will receive their heavenly resurrection is not stated. But we are assured in the context here that their sharing in the marriage of the Lamb, Christ Jesus, will be a happy time, and all the more so since they will have witnessed firsthand the humiliation of the infamous harlot, Babylon the Great.

    *** w92 4/15 p. 17 Jehovah’s Provision, the "Given Ones" ***

    Finally, after the demise of Babylon the Great, all 144,000 ‘sealed ones’ will be in heaven for the marriage of the Lamb. (Revelation 7:1-3; 19:1-8)

    *** w90 12/15 p. 30 Do You Remember? ***

    Will some anointed Christians survive the "great tribulation" and live on earth for a time before being taken to heaven?—Revelation 7:14.

    The Bible is not explicit on this. Some Bible accounts seem to suggest that anointed ones might live on into the new world. However, millions of those hoping to live forever on earth have received the training needed to get the new world under way. Hence, the small remnant would not be needed for this work, and God may choose to take them to heaven for "the marriage of the Lamb" after the executing of the religious harlot, "Babylon the Great." (Revelation 18:2, 10; 19:2, 7, 8)—8/15, page 31.

    Blondie

  • TheListener
    TheListener

    *** re chap. 30 p. 211 "Babylon the Great Has Fallen!" ***

    20

    This promise harmonizes well with Paul’s prophecy concerning Jesus’ presence: "Those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving [those of the anointed ones who survive into the Lord’s day] will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air." (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) After Satan’s ouster from heaven, those who were dead in union with Christ rose first. (Compare Revelation 6:9-11.) Afterward, those of the anointed ones who die during the Lord’s day are promised a special privilege. Their resurrection to spirit life in heaven is instantaneous, "in the twinkling of an eye." (1 Corinthians 15:52) How marvelous this is! And their works of righteousness continue right on in the heavenly realm.

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    w90 12/15 p. 30 Do You Remember? ***

    ·

    Will some anointed Christians survive the "great tribulation" and live on earth for a time before being taken to heaven?—Revelation 7:14.

    The Bible is not explicit on this. Some Bible accounts seem to suggest that anointed ones might live on into the new world. However, millions of those hoping to live forever on earth have received the training needed to get the new world under way. Hence, the small remnant would not be needed for this work, and God may choose to take them to heaven for "the marriage of the Lamb" after the executing of the religious harlot, "Babylon the Great." (Revelation 18:2, 10; 19:2, 7, 8)—8/15, page 31.

    ***

    Multiple Articles ***

    Questions

    From Readers

    ·

    Will some anointed Christians survive the "great tribulation" to live on earth in the new world before being taken to heaven?

    Pointedly, the Bible does not say.

    Christians have long been interested in the privileges that God might extend to them. (Acts 1:6) That has especially been true in our time since the Kingdom was established. (Matthew 24:3, 24, 34) With the end of this wicked system to come in their time, Christians have wondered whether some spirit-anointed ones might live through "the war of the great day of God" and serve on earth for a time before receiving their heavenly reward. (Revelation 16:14) The Bible does not say that this will occur, yet certain patterns and prophecies have been taken to indicate that it might. Rather than be dogmatic, we can watch to see how God will handle things.

    Some Biblical events have parallels later on among God’s people. For instance, we know that Jonah was in a large fish for three days and three nights. Some people would view that as simply an example of divine deliverance, but Jesus said that it was a prophetic pattern of how he would be in the grave for a comparable period before his resurrection. (Jonah 1:17; Matthew 12:40) Yes, Jonah’s experience was a prophetic type. Understandably, God’s servants have looked at prophecies and specific Bible accounts to see whether these might indicate how Jehovah will yet deal with them.

    As an example involving Bible prophecy, The Watch Tower of December 15, 1928, discussed Micah 5:2-15. The book of Micah dealt with ‘the Assyrian’s’ desolating of Samaria and the Jews’ return from exile in Babylon. (Micah 1:1, 5-7; 4:10) But it also pointed to later developments, such as the Messiah’s birth in Bethlehem. (Micah 5:2) Micah prophesied that after their deliverance from "the Assyrian," "the remaining ones of Jacob" would become "like dew from Jehovah" and "like a maned young lion among droves of sheep." (Micah 5:6-8) The Watch Tower commented: "This may be taken as an indication that some of the remnant will be on earth even after Armageddon is fought and will then have some more work to do in the name of the Lord and to his praise and glory." Notice the modest, reasonable language used to introduce this possibility: "This may be taken as an indication."

    What of a Bible account that might parallel such survival on earth? One example that has been presented concerns Noah and his family. Noah has been viewed as typifying Jesus in this time of the end. (Genesis 6:8-10; Matthew 24:37) As Noah led his wife and their three sons and daughters-in-law through the end of that ancient system, Christ will provide leadership for the remnant of his bride class and those who become children of the "Eternal Father," Jesus. Noah’s wife survived the Flood and shared in the renewing of true worship on a cleansed earth. A parallel might be the survival into the new world of a remnant of the bride class.—Isaiah 9:6, 7; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 21:2, 9.

    Other Biblical accounts have also been viewed as suggesting that some of the anointed might live into the new world. For example, Jeremiah survived the destruction of Jerusalem; "the man" with the secretary’s inkhorn remained to see the executional work before he went back to give his report.—Ezekiel 9:4, 8, 11.

    Comments about the possibility that some of the anointed might survive into the new world are made with good intentions and in the light of Biblical precedents for trying to understand prophecies or patterns that could have later parallels. If it turns out that none of the anointed are left on earth, there will be no reason for dissatisfaction. We already have accepted that Biblical matters are understood better as time passes. For instance, The Watchtower of July 15, 1981, discussed Micah 5:6-9 again and explained that "the remnant of spiritual Israelites have not had to wait until after . . . Har–Magedon in order to be as a ‘dew’ of refreshment to people." This discussion again offered the possibility that the remnant might survive God’s great war and for a while "continue to be as a refreshing ‘dew’ to the ‘great crowd’ of ‘other sheep.’" We can see, though, that the passing of time and the increase in spiritual light can broaden and alter our understanding of prophecy or of Bible dramas.—Proverbs 4:18.

    We do know that the Bible links the ‘coming of the Son of man’ with ‘the gathering of the chosen ones from the four winds.’ (Matthew 24:29-31) Also, during "the presence of the Lord" in Kingdom power, anointed ones sleeping in death are raised to life in heaven. (1 Thessalonians 4:15, 16) These sealed ones are there to become part of the Lamb’s wife. When does that occur?

    In the book of Revelation, immediately after John tells of God’s executing the religious harlot, Babylon the Great, he describes "the marriage of the Lamb." A filthy, immoral "woman" is removed from the scene, and we see "the bride, the Lamb’s wife" ‘arrayed in bright, clean, fine linen, which stands for the righteous acts of the holy ones.’ (Revelation 18:10; 19:2, 7, 8; 21:9) The destruction of Babylon the Great is part of the great tribulation. (Matthew 24:21; Revelation 7:14) So it could be reasoned that some of the bride class will survive the great tribulation as evidence of Jehovah’s approval and protection. (Zephaniah 2:3; compare Matthew 24:22.) If they are thus preserved on earth, they could remain here until God chooses to take them to heaven.

    However, the presentation in Revelation is not in strict sequential order. And it is not as though the small remnant of anointed ones will be needed to get the new world underway, for they have already trained millions of loyal Christians who will live forever on earth. Accordingly, God could take his anointed ones to heaven immediately after the destruction of Babylon the Great, setting the stage for "the marriage of the Lamb" to occur. All the holy ones could thus share with Christ in ‘shepherding the nations with an iron rod’ in the remainder of the great tribulation. (Revelation 2:26, 27; 19:11-21) If that is how God handles things, all the 144,000 would be with Jesus to ‘rule as kings with the Christ for the entire one thousand years.’—Revelation 20:4.

    It certainly is fine that God’s people are keenly interested in peering into how he will direct and reward his servants. (Compare 1 Peter 1:12.) This reflects their confidence that his will is going to be done. Though we cannot and should not be dogmatic about particulars, we can eagerly look forward to what will occur.

    ***

    w97 5/15 pp. 19-20 Theocratic Administration in the Christian Era ***

    16

    The Bible does not clearly say when all anointed Christians will leave their brothers of this ‘generation to come’ and go on to be glorified along with Jesus Christ. But these anointed ones are confident that the time for this is approaching. The events foretold in Jesus’ great prophecy about "the time of the end" have been coming to pass since 1914, showing that the destruction of this world is near. (Daniel 12:4; Matthew 24:3-14; Mark 13:4-20; Luke 21:7-24) Soon, Jehovah will usher in a new world in which ‘the generation to come’ will ‘inherit the kingdom [the earthly realm] prepared for them from the founding of the world.’ (Matthew 25:34) They are thrilled to anticipate the restoration of Paradise and the raising of millions of dead ones from Hades. (Revelation 20:13) Will anointed ones be there to welcome back these resurrected ones? Back in 1925, the May 1 Watch Tower said: "We should not arbitrarily say what God will or will not do. . . . [But] we are led to the conclusion that the members of the Church [anointed Christians] will be glorified before the resurrection of the ancient worthies [faithful pre-Christian witnesses]." Similarly discussing whether some of the anointed would be on hand to welcome back the resurrected ones, the September 1, 1989, Watchtower said: "This would not be necessary."

    17

    True, we do not know what will happen in the case of each anointed Christian. But the presence of Moses and Elijah with Jesus in the transfiguration vision indicates that resurrected anointed Christians are expected to be with Jesus when he comes in glory to "recompense each one according to his behavior" as his judgment is rendered and executed. Further, we remember Jesus’ promise that anointed Christians who ‘conquer’ will share with him in ‘shepherding the nations with an iron rod’ at Armageddon. When Jesus comes in glory, they will sit with him "judging the twelve tribes of Israel." With Jesus, they will ‘crush Satan under their feet.’—Matthew 16:27–17:9; 19:28; Revelation 2:26, 27; 16:14, 16; Romans 16:20; Genesis 3:15; Psalm 2:9; 2 Thessalonians 1:9, 10.

    18

    In keeping with his administration of things, Jehovah is progressively moving "to gather all things together again in the Christ." As far as "the things in the heavens" are concerned, his purpose approaches completion. The uniting of Jesus with all the 144,000 in heaven for "the marriage of the Lamb" is near. Hence, more and more longtime, mature brothers of the other sheep, representing "the things on the earth," have had delegated to them weightier responsibilities in support of their anointed brothers. What exciting times we live in! How thrilling to see Jehovah’s purpose moving on to its fulfillment! (Ephesians 1:9, 10; 3:10-12; Revelation 14:1; 19:7, 9) And how the other sheep rejoice to support their anointed brothers as both groups serve together as "one flock" under "one shepherd" in subjection to the King, Jesus Christ, and to the glory of the great Universal Sovereign, Jehovah God!—John 10:16; Philippians 2:9-11.
  • TheListener
    TheListener

    Oh man. Blondie you beat me. You did a much better job as well.

  • IronClaw
    IronClaw
    TRULY, we can be most joyful that the Messianic King, Christ Jesus, now reigns in a heavenly “Jerusalem.” This is the city “belonging to heaven” mentioned in Hebrews chapter 11, and for which Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ‘reached out.’

    According to Heb chapter 11, this is where Abraham and men of old are: IN HEAVEN.

    In the transfiguration was not Moses and Elijah next to Jesus as well? or something like that.

    This always puzzled me.

  • gumby
    gumby

    It amazes me how quick some of you can come up with that much information that fast!

    When the 'Generation change' took place, it put even more strain armageddon being being 'around the corner'. Printing that there are 8,000 annointed still alive only seems to add to the strain......so why do you suppose they bother to give the statistics? They continually explain that "some are not true partakers', yet they could eliminate this dilema by not printing it at all....yet they do not. Why?

    Gumby

  • gumby
    gumby
    According to Heb chapter 11, this is where Abraham and men of old are: IN HEAVEN.

    According to the dubs, these men didn't expect to go to heaven.....they rather expected gods heavenly government to provide them with a paradise earth.....something of course the jews never believed in. In actuality......the Jews never believed such a thing but rather in the promise through Abraham of an earthly inheritance. Only the writers of the N.T. invented the heavenly home and tried to tie in O.T. ideas to N.T. ideas.

    Gumby

  • luna2
    luna2

    You really have to wonder if its a case of those in charge (its hard to believe that some of the GB even know what day it is due to advanced age and disability) not wanting to admit yet another failure. If they have to drop the annointed doctrine, where does that leave them? One by one the sacred dominos fall.

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