144,000 are you one of them? (page 3)

ballistic

word in your ear: Severus is one of us Frog.

insearchoftruth

This has been a question that has really bothered me, how there can be two classes of Christians and how Jesus can only mediate for one class. Thanks for the explanations.

I have asked my wife to ask the sister teaching her, she has so far not asked, probably concerned of the question being not a typical one that would be asked.

greendawn

There is only one faith, one mediator and saviour for all humans, if Jesus is not the mediator of most JWs then who is?

Honesty

I have asked my wife to ask the sister teaching her, she has so far not asked, probably concerned of the question being not a typical one that would be asked.

That was the only problem I had when studying with the Jehovah's Witnesses almost 20 years ago.

I did not know what questions they should be asked.

Peruse the board and learn what questions to have your wife ask the JW's BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!!!

dinah--- The part where jesus says that many would make themselves eunichs for the sake of the kingdom and the part in revelation where it says these ones did not defile themselves with women , lead me to conclude they are eunichs . The reason for it is that in the kingdom of the heavens there won't be sex at all so the thing to do for the 144k is to leave those fleshly desires behind . It would also be a good idea if the great crowd followed the same since they too will be in the kingdom of the heavens for a thousand years .

As I see it the difference between the 2 groups is that the 144k die as martyrs prior to the end and are resurrected as spirits to co -rule with christ where as the great crowd survives the great tribulation by escaping to the kingdom, which is actually the city of new jerusalem that lands on earth . It's very much like a noahs ark because God will destroy the world with fire as he did with water in noahs day and no man made structure is likely to withstand that kind of force . It's kinda like a rapture thing but people actually wind up in a city and not just floating around on clouds as portrayed on rapture post cards . The apostle Paul wrote those alive at the time will meet the lord in the air and be changed . Since flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom then it's apparent they become as the angels . Which was written about as well .

BluesBrother

The wording of Revelation 7 ; 4 is understood to refer to a literal 144000 who are anointed to serve in the heavens, in contrast to the great crowd of verse 9 which is without number. This is, I believe, the only number in the Revelation that is not a symbol of something else. These are identified as the "Little flock" of Jesus’ description.

How many people are known to have received this calling ? There are no published statistics for the total of individual members in the twentieth/twentyfirst century.

Interestingly, in 1925 there were 90,434 partakers of the emblems according to the Watchtower 1961,page 721. However that number may include casual visitors to the Memorial since it does seem out of proportion . I believe a more realistic figure would be the 52,465 who partook in 1935, out of 56000 odd publishers.

There were 8570 who partook in year 2004. In the years between the 1870s and 1935 we do not have a figure for those who partook and died, and of course there are those who partook and died between 1935 and the present day.

A realistic estimate of the total number of the remnant of the present day must be in the region of at least 70.000 plus the trickle of numbers that has "always been there during the last two thousand years"

This leaves just 74,000 places that could be taken in the first century. The apostasy that followed the death of the apostles did not take over immediately , the Watchtower of 1989,15/11 spoke favourably of Polycarp who was martyred in 155 c.e..Therefore it would seem reasonable to allow for at least 100 years of genuine Christianity . They lacked the printing press but had the galvanising influence of the Holy Spirit and miraculous gifts. Is it reasonable to expect that they would expand at no lesser rate than the modern organisation? Please note the kick start of 3000 at Pentecost of 33 c.e. in one day , and a further 5000 soon after.

We have no definate numbers but it is interesting to read the historian Tacitus who made the statement that an immense multitude (ingens multitudo) were put to death by Nero. If such a multitude were martyred, then how many would have made up the congregation of "Anointed ones" ?

Interestingly, The Watchtower noted in Sept 1st 1951 that,

" Brief respite followed the death of Nero, but by the latter years of the first century the second great persecution, under Emperor Domitian, flared up. It is said that in the year 95 alone some 40,000 suffered martyrdom."

40,000 in one year. How many does that suggest as martyrs over a 100 year period, let alone the full numbers remaining?

By comparisom the modern organisation grew from it’s start in the 1870’s to 580,000 publishers within 80 years ,by 1950. That is more than seven times the amount required to provide the 74000 permissible number and that for a first century organisation that spanned at least from Babylon in the East to Spain in the West and included North Africa.

The above figures may seem complicated but are enough to make one question whether a number of 144,000 would not have been completed long ago?

heathen

The above figures may seem complicated but are enough to make one question whether a number of 144,000 would not have been completed long ago?

I think the evidence in scripture says that they are alive during the time of the end and it's only when the last one is martyred that the end of the world takes place . It's hard to say what happened to the members of the early church members but they did have alot of problems with immorality and the wolves in sheep clothing . I think we don't include women in that either . Apparently nobody kept a record of the martyrs but I also understand that just because you claim to be a christian does not mean you are .

FlyingHighNow

By comparisom the modern organisation grew from it’s start in the 1870’s to 580,000 publishers within 80 years ,by 1950. That is more than seven times the amount required to provide the 74000 permissible number and that for a first century organisation that spanned at least from Babylon in the East to Spain in the West and included North Africa.
The above figures may seem complicated but are enough to make one question whether a number of 144,000 would not have been completed long ago?

So they dodged around this with the great crowd of earthly hopers and some arrogance in saying they'd be the only org. with heaven open to them.

Hi, Blues Brother. Always such thoughtful posts.

heathen

So they dodged around this with the great crowd of earthly hopers

Now to me this is blaspheme , once I started to realize exactly what the major screw up was with this dogma It became apparent to me just how stupid they really are . They try to replace the kingdom of the heavens with the book publishing corporation . They litterally tell people they will not inherit the kingdom of the heavens and will live on earth throughout the tribulation and eternally without even actually seeing it or jesus christ and even go so far as to teach that elders will still be in authority of some sort through out the earth during the millenial reign . They still have alot of screwed up dogma to work out . The thing I hate about them the most is when I did see some error and wanted to discuss it how I was treated by them . They really are a bunch of hateful losers .

Navigator

I am not one of the 144,000 but my wife thinks she is. Do you think that sleeping with one of the "annointed" will give you a free pass at Armhageddon? She was born in 1936.

144,000 are you one of them?

Share this