FRANCE-WTS BIG SCANDAL IF TRUE
by DannyHaszard 64 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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carla
Why doesn't Dozy just write or call Brooklyn for us? As a member of the org only she is 'worthy' of any truth and just maybe will get a straight answer. If Dozy was truly concerened about any kind of truth she would be willing to check into things. Dozy can you get a financial report for us? Somehow, I don't think this will happen.
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rebel8
Just received an email back from the reporter:
"By looking at the websites of the American Watchtower companies, we can guess what Hartkopf means by foreign donations. In the fiscal year 1997/1998, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania had net assets worth 705 billion dollars, as can be read on their website." Whose website are you referring to? That amount is significantly higher than what we are aware of and we'd like to learn more. Could you provide a link? answer> 705 "billion" is a mistake of the translator, we already changed it in "million" there are many texts about this; you can find a faksimile of the document here: http://www.sektenausstieg.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1148&Itemid=29
or in this text with links here (in German, but you can click the links): http://www.sektenausstieg.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1353
"On the website of U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission 'SEC', it is documented that the Watchtower company, regardless of its refusal of military service and political abstention, owns shares in the JP Morgan mutual trust fund..." There are many funds with that name; could you provide a link or more specific information so I can locate the correct fund? answer>This Information is in the text here:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/919034/000104746902007862/a2087860z485bpos.txtThank you and regards Srebrina Bognár
To save you the time, the first 2 links lead to what I already posted. The last link shows you a document showing the WT of Pennsylvania owns 5.51% of the "LIQUID ASSETS MONEY MARKET FUND". I don't know how to find the value of the fund but I'm sure someone will figure it out and post.
Sorry you know how the formatting gets messed up sometimes for no particular reason.
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roybatty
Look,there are 195 kingdom halls in my little ole state of maine usa,the Bangor Maine usa k-hall is a mighty fine piece of real estate..Many if not most k-halls in the usa have an attached apartment that generates a rental income.The WTS pays no income,sales or real estate taxes on any of it.
I'm not so sure about attached apartments on most kingdom halls these days. IMO that's a thing of the past. However...And people keep forgetting that the WT holds the title for almost all the Kingdom Halls in the U.S. (if not the world) along with assembly halls and other property. For example, when I was an elder for a congregation that was planning to build a new kingdom hall, we had our hands slapped by the CO because we were thinking about using a local bank for a mortage. Big "no-no." So instead the WT loaned us the money. Granted the interest rate was low but even if they charge a couple percentage points of interest, times this for all the halls around the globe and then take into consideration no taxes AT ALL what a sweeeeeet deal for them. It cracks me up that the local brothers and sisters BUILD the kingdom hall themselves and then have to make payments WITH INTEREST back to the Society! Ha! Ha!
I would be shocked if their holdings only come to 200 billion. I know when the hall in my area was built several years ago the land was worth only a fraction of what it's now worth. Throw on top of there a building built for "free" and the Society has an assest with instant equity. With this kind of money, a company can gain access to financial circles that can make them even MORE money. Yes, it's true, it takes money to make money and it takes a LOT of money to make a LOT more money. This is something the WT is good at.
Personally, I feel ALL non-profit organizations should have to by law disclose everything about their income, assest and who gets paid what.
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rebel8
To add to what you just said....the real estate database cannot possibly be right. Note the 25 Columbia Hts. property is listed at under $3 million. How can that possibly be? Isn't that a fairly large property? In the middle of NYC? Surely it is worth more than that.
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metatron
Unfortunately, the 'facts' presented here are muddled and mixed up. There ain't no 700 billion.
On the other hand, the Watchtower is clearly 'part of the world' as shown by the simple fact of the size of their business
investments. Claiming that you are 'no part of the world' while holding hundreds of millions in stock and real estate
makes you very much a part of the world, in very real terms.
I do know that the Watchtower held stock in HOM , which contracts to do work on military bases. ( I once owned the stock
and I pointed this out some time ago). You can't hold a big portfolio without some sort of connection to the military or business
corruption. Hence, they are very much a part of the world , as common sense and common parlance would dictate.
metatron
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dozy
"There is absolutely no evidence of "the only consensus one of being critical to JWs, whatever the facts"; it is something you made up. Once again I must ask you to check your facts. Go back and read this thread. You will see most posters are critiquing the reporter's information, not accepting it."
The 18th poster was the first to query the amount , just before my post - most took it at face value (despite it being out by a factor of 1000).
This forum is overwhelmingly anti -JW & makes no pretence to be objective or factual - I accept that. Some posts are legitimate , most are inconsequential , some are deliberate (or in this case , apparently accidental) untruth. I am simply pointing out any obvious errors which would mislead the innocent or naive. I do not claim that all ex-JWs are liars - I have stated that some are obviously scholarly & reason their points skilfully.
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metatron
The simplest answer is that the Watchtower Society, like many religions, is asset rich and cash flow poor, generally speaking.
There can be no doubt that they own real estate worth hundreds of millions, maybe billions. However, their cash flow is limited
since contributions have dropped dramatically, especially since the volunteer donation arrangement started in response to the Jimmy
Swaggart case. This drop in contributions ( together with some inflation) is why they keep cutting back on things like hard bound
literature, food service at assemblies, subscriptions, the Awake magazine, and staff at Bethel.
I also characterize the drop in contributions as a form of passive resistance by many Witnesses who are growing tired of
the Watchtower's uncaring and limp 'cut and paste' response to the serious problems that face publishers.
metatron
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Hellrider
I have to say, thhis 750 billion-figure must be a joke. It`s probably millions. But still, 750 millions is still probably an underestimate. I bet they`re worth at least a couple of billions. And either way, for an organisation which poses as a "religion", and therefore pays no taxes, that`s pretty shitty. If they were truly christians, those hundreds of millions of dollars could be used to help suffering people in a lot of 3rd world countries.
I believe that is what Jesus would do, if he had 750 million dollars.
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Gill
If you consider just in the UK, the cost of property now, KHs, those with attatched appartments, which I can think of several in my area, and assembly halls, the bethel facilities etc, billions is far more likely than millions, as to the worth of the bOrg.
Cash flow - well that's another kettle of fish all together.
But liquid assets can be found, by begging and annoying the R and F and selling vasts amount of real estate.
To me....I say, yes billions. Just maybe NOT 704 billions.