The Real origin of the 1914 Doctrine

by barry 12 Replies latest jw friends

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  barry

  I am a baptised Seventh Day Adventist and Ive had studies for about 6mths with a very nice JW lady. Ive learnt about the WT teachings and attended the KH and the memorial. n There are some similarities with the Adventist and JW teachings such as baptism by imersion, the state of the dead,some adventists dont vote and some Adventists beleive with the WT society in the Arian doctrine that Jesus is a created being and the holy spirit is a force but the vast majority beleive the trinity doctrine. Both are hierarchical systems. Also the 1914 doctrine I beleive has its roots in adventism and so a brief history is appropriate to show the connection. In the 19th century a Baptist minister William Miller used Daniel 8-14 '' unto 2300 days then shall the santury be cleansed'' to predict the physical comming of christ when this prophecy failed to occure the prophecy was reinterpreted to be the beginning of the investigative judgement. A judgement that occures before the second comming. I had a book I cant find it to quote to you, but I remember reading about Charles Taze Russell with an adventist group predicted the second comming for 1874, when nothing happened the prophecy was reinterpreted to be a secret comming or parousia and this was again repeted again in 1914. Both the Adventist 1844 doctrine and the WT 1914 doctrine rely on the day year principle. Both in daniel 4 and daniel 8 the word day is not mentioned, and in order for this formula to work the word day must exist. Daniel has evenings and mornings and in Daniel 4 only years are mentioned. Neither is there any rationale or authority to associate the 40 year judgement of Numbers 14 with the prophecy of daniel of Daniel 8 or Daniel 4 to do so is presumptuous and arbitrary. What would we say if today someone randomly selected and connected two unrelated verses of scripture to conceive a new religious claim? One would be extremely naive to accept it without question. The year for a day principle is thought to be valid in Daniel 4 & Daniel 8 because it seems to work in Daniel 9. However no day for is necessary here remember Daniel is thinking about the 70 years Jerusalem is in ruins early in the chapter and then Gabriel explains the messiah will appear 7 times seventy years or 490 years. The Adventist Church by adopting this position and beleiving in an Investigative Judgement in 1844 has taught an uncertain gospel. A persons sins are only provisionally forgiven and then only blotted out in the Investigative Judgement. Adventists have struggled with this teaching for 150 years the church promotes this doctrine even though it has made 50 changes to it, while scolars openly dissagree with the traditional teaching and half the membership dissagree with all or at least part of it. From what I have learnt the WT with its position on the 1914 teaching denies the bodily return of Christ by saying the resurrected Christ didnt have a physical body.This a Ngostic beleif from the 2nd and it was claimed by the Gnostics Our Lord didnt have a body of flesh and bones, because that is Satans realm and only our souls are from God. It is obvious to the writer when these false predictions were made other teachings had to be invented to cover there the first LIE. When will these groups be honest to face the truth. WE would all teach and hope our kids to be more honest than this. Barry Ford Opinions can be wrong but love is never wrong
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  larc

  Barry,

  Thank you for your contribution. Many of us here know of the connection between Adventism and Russell. However, very few of us are familiar with the Adventist tradition like you are. I am sure you will get many questions and comments. Again, thank you for your very interesting contribution.
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  MacHislopp

  Hello Barry,

  thanks for you post. As Iarc wrote, many of us

  are aware about the "origins", at the time of C.T. Russsell,
  Barbour,Storrs atc. It would be interesting, to write more
  concerning the 187O's - 1914 period of time , just before
  the death of C.T. Russell.

  Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
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  Thirdson

  Hi Barry,

  Thanks for posting your thoughts on the start of the Adventist movement. I've learnt a great deal in the past 5 years about the early history of the JW religion.

  My view is that these new unorthodox religions not only attracted flaky ideas about Biblical numerology and prophecy but also delved in to the pseudo-science popular in the late Victorian age. The Watchtower society has a history of promoting quack medical devices, promoting phrenology, promoting pyramidology denouncing real science (vaccinations etc), crusading against aluminum, and setting end-dates for the world.

  Most of these things have gone now, quietly hidden or regarded as “old-light”. However, despite all the junk discarded on way, the idea about 1914 (one date out of numerous speculations) and the ban on blood transfusions remain. Most JWs don’t see these in the context of the bizarre former teachings and the modern explanation, however contrived, is believed. For the WTS, they have to retain these because the 1914 doctrine is crucial to the leadership’s position and “blood” would cause too many legal problems should they admit to their mistake.

  Thirdson

  'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
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  JT

  excellent post - this poster represents in MY MIND the New Bible Student that JW will face in the future- One who knows how to do research on the WT ORG- and the points he has stated were on the money
  we welcome you to this forum

  just a word of caution- with this Knowledge that you have about wt history- you will find that the person who studies with you - if they are your avg jw - have little or no idea that the information you mentioned about russel is all true -

  in fact if you talk TOO MUCH about your information you will find that the jw will try thier very best to change the subject matter

  jw don't like to discuss thier past- but of course a man who knows not his past has no idea where he is going in the future

  continue to do your research and raise questions with the je who comes to your house and you will see that the person will start to veiw and treat you differently --- they have no choice - it's part of thier Programming as you willl see shortly

  just giving you a heads up

  james
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  hillary_step

  Barry,

  Thank you for your post, most informative and much appreciated.

  Back in the late 80’s I read the book issued by the Adventists entitled, ‘Seventh-Day Adventists Believe….A Biblical Exposition Of 27 Fundamental Doctrines’.

  Apart from the many doctrinal similarities between the SDA and the JW’s I was struck buy the allowances granted within the church for individuals who deviate from accepted SDA teachings with no fear of punitive action. I was also struck by the enormous amount of admirable practical work the SDA does for the community.

  I am intrigued to know whether those who differ with some of the fundamental doctrines of the church are treated by their peers. For example can they hold office? Are they viewed as having a spiritual problem? Do people try to influence acceptance of the ‘company line’ by peer pressure.

  The SDA appear to be able to maintain unity within, despite the allowance of divergent views. The WTS is not just hierarchical but tyrannical and obsessed beyond compassion and Christian ethic in their quest to maintain control by punishing any who openly display divergent thinking.

  Thank you again for your informative post, we would love to hear more about the inner life of the average SDA.

  HS
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  MadApostate

  Barry's being a SDA and having studied with a JW for 6 months sparks my interest, since over a several decade period, I cannot recall ever meeting a JW who had previously been a SDA, real or perceived.

  I don't even recall even "hearing" of a SDA becoming a JW. Since SDAs and JWs are both historical and doctrinal "cousins", there are good reasons FOR a "disgruntled" SDA to jump ship to the JWs, but there are also good reasons why a "questioning/inquiring" SDA would NOT want to become a JW.

  Does anyone know a JW that was previously a SDA, and what motivated the switch?
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  Flip

  Thanks for the post barry. You might also inquire what prompted millenarian thought in the first place, here’s one example from an article in the 1998 November issue of Sky & Telescope regarding the significant affect the Leonid meteor shower had on the East coast of the United States in 1833.

  “”The world did not end that night, nor the next morning, nor the next Sunday as many fearfully anticipated. But the meteor storm was said to be the main topic of conversation in every circle of the community for weeks afterward. Prayer meetings were held, and for a long time many firmly believed that the Day of Judgment remained imminent and awaited it daily. Historians have speculated that the shower contributed to the great millenarian religious revivals that swept the United States in the 1830s -- movements that permanently influenced the national character and produced new sects and denominations that are with us today. ””

  “”For that matter, an Internet search reveals a scattering of people who, 165 years after the night of the great shower, are waiting still. One is Don Gettys, pastor of the McDonald Road Seventh-day Adventist Church in McDonald, Tennessee. He has posted a recent sermon in which he says he believes "the great meteor shower in 1833 did alert us to the beginning of the time of the end."”

  The entire content of the Sky & Telescope can be found here -

  http://www.skypub.com/sights/meteors/leonids/leonids_1833.html

  Flip
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  waiting

  Welcome to our forum, Barry.

  1914 teaching denies the bodily return of Christ by saying the resurrected Christ didnt have a physical body.This a Ngostic beleif from the 2nd and it was claimed by the Gnostics Our Lord didnt have a body of flesh and bones, because that is Satans realm and only our souls are from God. - Barry

  I don't know much about the SDA nor Gnostics. What you posted was interesting in the above quote and makes sense in a fundamental kinda of way.....not that I agree with it....but I can see where they'd get that idea.

  I dated a SDA many years ago. His father was a doctor, and he was an engineering student. Nice guy (I'll remain silent on our further details). However, he could really reel off the SDA teachings, charts, etc. We never discussed religion that much, but he felt he would be quite capable of trampling my beliefs. Humility wasn't one of his gifts.

  I wasn't interested in him in *that* way, so I'd just have to guess at the religious outcome.

  Seeing that he and his father were well educated; were they unique or does your church have any negative guidelines like the jw's about attending college?

  waiting
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  toddy

  ?