Jehovah as Satan - human sacrifice in the Bible

by hallelujah 7 Replies latest jw experiences

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  hallelujah

  
  In the Bible there is a human sacrifice of Jepthah's daughter as a burnt offering at Judges 11:29,11:39, in gratitude for giving Jepthah victory in battle. Now the WTBTS and others more recently proclaim that this was only a sacrifice of her virginity and that by sacrificing her as a burnt offering what it really meant was that she was forcibly restrained from having marital relations and forced to die a virgin. Do any sisters see any similarity with the injunction to Sisters to only marry in the lord???

  The other thing no witness could ever satisfy me about was - to whom, or to what, was Jesus sacrificed? If Jesus was sacrificed to God, then what kind of a God is that, who demands the blood of the innocent to pay for the sins of the guilty. If Jesus was sacrificed to satisfy law, then the law must be higher than God and God subject to it, but again, what kind of a law is that which demands the blood of the innocent to pay for the sins of the guilty???

  Could Jehovah be Satan?
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  cosmic

  Both are good questions. As far as Jepthah's daughter (or, for that matter, most "sacrifices" mentioned in the Bible) it always seems like someone else is doing the sacrifice. I'm not sure why someone who has everything would be pleased with someone who has very little giving up everything they had. This is what often makes me truely believe that I am better than God, as I would require a sacrifice whereby those who had lots would have to give to those who didn't have very much, rather than give it to somebody who doesn't need a f'ing thing.

  As far as Jesus' sacrifice, here you get into all manners of gobbledegook logic and, ultimately, downright stupidity. The WTS taught that when Adam "sinned", he sacrificed himself to Satan(?), which threw some sort of celestial scales out of balance Thus, it would take the sacrifice of another perfect man for Jehovah to "right" the scales. This is all predicated by the notion that Johovah is perfect and requires perfect justice! (Oh, please, puke, puke, vomit!) Supposedly, it was to prove that a perfect man could withstand temptations and remain "perfect". But Jesus vs. Adam doesn't seem quite apples and apples, so the scales should have been somewhat over-corrected. Further, Adam may not have done what he did just for himself. As I recall, legend has it that there was this beautiful wife, wholly dependent upon Adam, that was part of the deal as well. (God: Here Adam, I give you this wife and she is your flesh and you must love, cherish, and protect her above all else! (Later) What??? You little punk, you chose her over me!?! I'll fix your butt!) Concerning your plea for "innocent blood", remember, according to current wisdom, no human is innocent, so, by "logical" extension your argument is invalid. In the case of Jesus, he was defined as the innocent lamb; but my idea of total innocence would not include volunteering for the job.
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  hallelujah

  Thanks Cosmic

  I've just seen too many people forgoing their lives in religious or quasi-"spiritual" cults and being told that everything will be given to them in a future life. (Buddhist = reincarnation, WTBTS = resurrection).
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  Gill

  hallelujah - Have you been reading 'Jehovah Unmasked' by Nathanial Merrit?
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  hallelujah

  I haven't got it yet, though I've ordered it. I tried to read the bible but I got stuck at Judges 11:29 with the sacrifice of Jepthah's daughter.
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  Narkissos

  An interesting insight on human sacrifice to the national god in the context of war is found in 2 Kings 3. It involves a polytheistic perspective (cf. the "equal treatment" of Yahweh and Chemosh, who is Moab's god, in Judges 11:24):

  When the king of Moab saw that the battle was going against him, he took with him seven hundred swordsmen to break through, opposite the king of Edom; but they could not. Then he took his firstborn son who was to succeed him, and offered him as a burnt offering (just as Jephthah's daughter) on the wall. And great wrath came upon Israel, so they withdrew from him and returned to their own land.

  Here the human sacrifice overturns the battle, which is also understood as a struggle between the national gods of Israel/Edom vs. Moab. Yahweh (who might have been Edomite even prior to being Israelite) was overpowering Chemosh, and the sacrifice of last resort causes an unnamed "great wrath" (probably some kind of sovereign nemesis superior to both of the competing gods) which changes the situation, preventing the complete victory of Yahweh.

  In Jephthah's story the sacrifice for victory is anticipated by the vow.

  The WTS taught that when Adam "sinned", he sacrificed himself to Satan(?)

  ? indeed...

  Also, the "scales" thing is totally non-biblical early adventist theology. Never is the idea that Jesus must equal Adam expressed in the NT. (The comparisons between Adam and Christ in 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 5 have a completely different perspective -- it's not about the "value" of "sacrifice" -- and both insist on the difference between them.)
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  hallelujah

  
  Wow Narkissos

  This is even in the New World Translation. I'm blown away that the Bible itself considers human child sacrifice to Chemosh the God of Moab to be effective against the Israelites.

  I wonder whether the authors of the New Testament after the Gospels are so profoundly influenced by Jesus that they try to place him in the context of the old testament. If so this would explain why more emphasis has been given to Jesus death which has been post hoc erga procter hoc deemed a sacrifice, than to his teaching.

  2 Kings 3:27 certainly puts a new light on the interpretation of Jesus death as a ransom.

  Thanks

  Dan
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  peacefulpete

  The moral repellency of the ransom doctrine is the result of literalizing the whole story. It seems eminently reasonable to understand the Jesus /Christ stories as an extention of the OT metaphor of a suffering servant "Israel" paying dues for the sinful ways of its people. I'm coming to a new appreciation for theory that the Jesus story was intended parable in the style of the writers of Isaiah and Jeremiah. The recurring parables about vines,figtrees, lame and blind, reversal of fortunes,births and deaths may mark the Gospels as simply continuing a long tradition of describing hope and polemics through the art of parable. In such a case the story is no more endorsing the practice of human sacrifice anymore than Is 53 was. Even within the "Paganism" of the time the stories of gods and sons of gods suffering and dying for men was understood as metaphor and symbolism.