Did the Universe create God?

nicolaou

However you believe we got here the fact is - here we are! Intelligent life exists in the Universe in the form of humankind. We are often cruel, sometimes brutal, commonly mediocre but occasionally brilliant and capable of incredible love and kindness. And we are intelligent.

Now here's my dilemma. If, as an atheist, I am forced to accept that the Universe gave birth to intelligent life on Earth should I not accept that intelligent life - godlike life - may also have arisen elsewhere in this almost unfathomable Universe?

Science has shown us that much about the material Universe is unknown. Galaxies should fly apart if the only matter that existed is that which we can observe hence the respected postulation of the existence of 'dark matter' which may account for over 90% of the 'stuff of existence'.

Could intelligence exist within the invisible universe of dark matter?

Is this invisible universe heaven?! The home of god?

If we 'pierce the veil' of dark matter might we actually uncover the nature of the almighty himself?

Of course, if any of this is even remotely near the mark (doubtful) it would mean that god arose at the behest of the same natural forces that brought us humans into existence. The nature of 'god's' existence and intelligence would certainly be different from ours, I might have to accept that 'he' could be much more powerful and long-lived than I am, perhaps even that he is eternal and that his perception has infinite range so that he would appear omnipresent. Perhaps some humans could tap into his consciousness through some mental discipline that some call prayer or meditation. Spooky.

Yes, I might have to accept the possibilty that a god exists.

But this just throws up a hundred new questions each needing their own space and time to grow and flower. If the Universe did indeed produce godlike intelligence then I'd like to meet it. I wouldn't worship it, it would only be my brother after all - a child of the cosmos just as I am.

Nic'

ballistic

godlike intelligence

If we were created by a god, why would he use the exact same building blocks of life as the animals? Essentialy we are animals, supposedly slightly brainier. In my opinion, only a god with a warped sense of humour or maybe we were given this life as a punishment.

nicolaou

I didn't suggest that "we were created by a god", only that all intelligent life - ourselves and god (if he exists at all) were 'created' by the universe itself.

Caedes

godlike is the most important word. Yes there is the possibility that there are creatures out there vastly superior to ourselves, however we are statistically likely to be amongst the first creatures to make their way off-planet in this universe. So we could be the godlike ones.

Still doesn't provide any evidence to support the existance of supernatural beings though. Dark matter provides no more of a livable environment than the vacuum of space did before the theory was suggested.

If we do find hard evidence () of the nature of dark matter I would imagine it will just reveal a further layer of complexity, but perhaps i'm being cynical.

nicolaou

Caedes - cynicism is a truly wonderful thing!

Nic'

ballistic

I see. There is a theory that the entire universe is god, including all life and humans, that it has it's own collective conciousness. In millions of years when our sun expands and burns the earth to a crisp, the particles we are made of will be recycled in some way and go on to form other life forms, maybe other universes. There will be no libraries or museums to remember the human story but our history still remains, contained in those very particles which are recycled, the information contained in the particles is never deleted.

flyphisher

ballistic

There is a theory that the entire universe is god

nicolaou

god (if he exists at all) were 'created' by the universe itself.

God exists in different manner.

a) as a mathematical/logical meta-principle - see e.g. http://www.sensortime.com/jhwh-e.html

b) as a "being"

a -> can exist without a material universe b -> can exist only together with a material universe ("after the big bang")

nicolaou

So what do you think flyphisher? That god is an abstract principle or a being in time and space?

I'm still of the opinion that god is non-existant but my knowledge and experience are limited to my 500 months on this planet.

zeroday

If you accept that there is no god (and I do) and we are a product of evolution then you can calculate on the very conservative side if life has, does or will exist elsewhere. If each galaxy can produce only one earth like planet that will support life and there are over 150 billion galaxies then life is not rare at all. I might suggest a book: "Rare Earth" by Peter D. Ward and Donald Brownlee

nicolaou

zeroday, have you ever heard of the Drake Equation? It goes as follows;

N= [r* x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc] L

N= number of possible civilizations to communicate with

R* = is the rate at which stars capable of sustaining like are formed

fp = the fraction of these stars which have planets

ne = the number of planets similar to Earth in the planetary system

fl = the fraction of the Earth-like planets that hold life

fi = the fraction of life that becomes an intelligent civilization

fc = the fraction intelligent civilizations that attempt to communicate

L= the number of years the civilization remains able to communicate.

There are about 400 billion stars in our galaxy alone, so there could be life right next door (relatively speaking). Even if there is no life in the Milky Way, there are, as you say, billions of other galaxies to turn to. We may or may not contact these civilizations in our lifetime, but it gives us a new kind of hope and dream for the future of our planet and the future of mankind. According to NASA, "Frank Drake's own current estimate puts the number of communicating civilizations in the galaxy at 10,000."

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Did the Universe create God?

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