I being a non jw would like some clairity. I have been reading the book of revelation and have found that God and Jesus are refered to in the same way. "I am the Alpha and the Omega, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
With this in mind only, how is there a doubt in ones mind that God and Jesus are not one and the same? Keep in mind the Bible is the true inspired word of God.
Clarify this for me if you can.
by Bob Knowing 27 Replies latest jw friends
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Bob Knowing
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SixofNine
Keep in mind the Bible is the true inspired word of God.
Have you read the bible?
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jayhawk1
I don't have my Revelation book anymore, because I found it to be a load of crap. If I remember right, the JWs believe Jesus was refering to himself as the first and last creation. And Jehovah is the first and last of everything. Like you, I believe the JWs have this one wrong. But then again, when have they ever been right?
"Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford
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COMF
Eat shit, Bob. Hook it on down the road.
COMF
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jayhawk1
Hey COMF, bad day? Do you know Bob Knowing? Is there something I don't understand? I don't want to piss you off, but I would like to know what is up.
"Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford
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Bob Knowing
Yes I have. This would not be the only relation between God and Jesus mentioned in the Bible.
Or have you not read that far. -
Bob Knowing
You are a true inspiration.
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You Know
It is not uncommon for people to take a verse here and there and construct an entire doctrine out of it. What you are stumbling over is that Jesus and Jehovah share many titles, for instance they are both called Saviors. They are both titled as lords. And as you know they are both called Gods. However, there are numerous other verses that show that Jesus is not equal to Jehovah, that they are in fact two different individuals. Even after Christ's resurrection he is still subject to Jehovah. The 15th chapter of Corinthians makes that plain, that Christ eventually hands over the kingdom to the Almighty God and subjects himself fully to Jehovah. In the case of each being the First and Last, Jehovah can rightly take that title, but so can Christ. Christ can lay claim to being the First, not because he was the before Jehovah, but because he has been the first in all phases of Jehovah's purposes. He was the first creature that God created. He was the first creature that God granted immortality. He has been the the first and only creature that God granted godship too, and no doubt, he will be the last because there will never be another creature whom will surpass the glory that Jehovah has given Christ.
/ You Know
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Silverleaf
Hi Bob,
I gather you're new to the list, so welcome. First off as another non-JW I'm not quite able to understand the idea of Jesus being a 'creature' or a 'creation' but that's really neither here nor there.
You wrote:
With this in mind only, how is there a doubt in ones mind that God and Jesus are not one and the same?
Beats me, but let me ask you this, if God and Jesus are one and the same, how is Jesus's death on the cross [or stake] ANY sacrafice at all for God? If Jesus is God and not God's actual son or one of God's creations or creatures or another entity entirely [like an angel], then God did not sacrafice anything, he set himself up to be put on the cross, knowing he could not actually die, but would be resurrected [or resurrect himself in that case]. So all the people who spend a lot of time saying, "Look how God sacraficed his one and only son for our sins, he gave us his son - blah blah blah..." if God and Jesus are exactly the same being then God did not give us his son nor did he sacrafice anything, he merely appeared to do so.
Then you wrote:
Keep in mind the Bible is the true inspired word of God.No thanks. I'd rather keep that in the round file if you don't mind.
Silverleaf
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SixofNine
No thanks. I'd rather keep that in the round file if you don't mind.
What a shame, I could have used you as a door to door partner, you're good!