Question on DF'ing

by littlerockguy 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Johnny

  Hi Littlerockguy,

  This is my personal perspective on the issue, and I know others may disagree.

  Let's say I start off by assuming that the apostles were directed by Holy Spirit to instruct and write what they did. In the scriptures used to support the practice of DFing (WT) the persons in question are those who are of the Body of Christ (WT "anointed"), period. Since the vast majority of "Witnesses" do NOT claim to be of this class, it's a moot point. The scriptures DO NOT apply to THEM (by their own ideas)!

  Few people ever bring up this point but I believe that it is a crucial one. If there was a law on the books which applied to all people over 7-feet tall and some group was applying it to all people, how could it be enforced??
• 

  Thomas Poole

  The whole idea is of WE control and subordination.

  The Christian way is to confess and ask for forgiveness. The repentance is manifest by the stopping of the practice of sin. See Romans 6th chapter.

  If anyone was hurt other than yourself, it is good to ask for forgiveness from them to patch up things.

  After confession and asking for giveness is done, turn it over to Christ, accept the forgiveness from God, forgive yourself and move on. It is in the pass. Hang on to it and Satan might start to play with it.

  Bottom line is that unless have accept Christ in you heart and become born again, you're dead anyway.
• 

  jwfacts

  Hi, Read http://jwfacts.com/index_files/disfellowship.htm

  Disfellowshipping and shunning are not words that appear in the bible, they are practices loosely based on the bible, but that go well beyond the scriptures. It is interesting that the scripture the WTS uses for Marking is talking about apostates, showing that even those disagreeing with the early christians could be spoken to.

  There is only one scripture that says not to even talk to a wrongdoer, an in that situation it was referring to the AntiChrist only, not all the petty reasons that the WTS have included.
• 

  greendawn

  Jesus would eat and drink with the sinners in an attempt to help them he certainly didn't shun them for not keeping to the mosaic law and from this his mindset is obvious it is certainly not judgemental like that of the JWs who have drawn up a long list of D'Fing offences way beyond what's written in the scriptures.
  
  Did the early Christians excommunicate members? Yes they did but only for the most serious violations such as adultery, murder, rape, wayward heresy (eg if like the gnostics one claimed that the death of Jesus had no redemptive value for mankind because it was a death just like any other), and even then not all contact was cut off but kept to a non intimate level eg they wouldn't eat together with them.
  
  The JWs also use D'Fing as a weapon against dissenters ie it has a political dimension, it's a way to protect their authority from challenges and they have absolutely zero tolerence for this.
• 

  nicolaou

  Did the early Christians excommunicate members? Yes they did but only for the most serious violations such as adultery, murder, rape, wayward heresy (eg if like the gnostics one claimed that the death of Jesus had no redemptive value for mankind because it was a death just like any other), and even then not all contact was cut off but kept to a non intimate level eg they wouldn't eat together with them.

  So let me get this straight, you are saying that a former Christian who decides that Jesus was just a man who died like any other should be compared to a murderer or rapist? Have I understood you right greendawn? Is that honestly what you are saying?

  Nic'
• 

  truthfullyspeaking

  Hope this helps?....if you would like more just ask me

  Judas was dismissed and was not included as Jesus instituted the 'new covenant' with his faithful apostles. 'After dismissing the undesirable man from their midst, the master of ceremonies introduced the Lord’s Supper to the remaining faithful eleven, using the unleavened bread and the red wine that were still available at the table'.

  FYI - please read Hebrews 12:1-11, 2 Tim. 3:1-5, 2 Tim. 3:14-17,

  ....Elders (those in position of oversight in the congregation) .... remember that most cases of sin in the congregation involve weakness, not wickedness. They don't forget Jesus’ illustration of the lost sheep, which he concluded with the words: “I tell you that thus there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner that repents than over ninety-nine righteous ones who have no need of repentance.” (Luke 15:7) Truly, “Jehovah . . . does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9) Judicial committees throughout the world do their utmost to cause joy in heaven by helping wrongdoers see the need to repent and start their feet back on the narrow road that leads to everlasting life.—Matthew 7:13, 14. .....Does this mean that if a Christian succumbs to weakness or stumbles into grave sin, he is automatically expelled from the congregation? By no means! Jehovah is not a coldhearted dictator. He is merciful and understanding. He remembers that we are imperfect. (Psalm 103:14) Jehovah recognizes that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) God has arranged for spiritual help within the congregation so that if a Christian takes a "false step" or even commits a serious sin, he may be lovingly ‘readjusted’ in a spirit of mildness. (Galatians 6:1) By accepting counsel from God’s Word and demonstrating heartfelt sorrow and genuine repentance, one who has strayed from the path of righteousness can "get healed" spiritually.—James 5:13-16.

  .....What, though, if a baptized Christian seriously errs and all efforts to restore him are unsuccessful? In other words, what if he stubbornly refuses to correct his sinful course?

  ......The Bible commands Christians: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man."—1 Corinthians 5:11. Realizing that "one sinner can destroy much good," the apostle Paul commanded fellow believers: "Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." (Ecclesiastes 9:18; 1 Corinthians 5:13) This action prevents the sinner from spreading corruption in the congregation, and it protects the congregation’s good name.—Compare 1 Timothy 3:15 Therefore, disfellowshipping is a loving arrangement because it upholds God’s holy name and it protects the congregation from the corrupting influence of sin. Also, it demonstrates love for the wrongdoer by encouraging him to repent and "turn around so as to get [his] sins blotted out, that seasons of refreshing may come from the person of Jehovah."—Acts 3:19.

  .....The apostle Paul heard of a case of incestuous fornication in that young congregation, and he gave instructions that the man involved be disfellowshipped. Later, the sinner repented, and Paul exhorted the congregation to reinstate him. (1 Corinthians 5:1, 13; 2 Corinthians 2:5-9) Thus, by the healing power of Jehovah’s loving kindness and the great value of Jesus’ ransom sacrifice, the man was cleansed of his sin. ....One may have ceased the serious wrongdoing for which he was disfellowshipped. Another may have been using tobacco, or he may in the past have been overdrinking, but he is not now trying to lead others into wrongdoing. Recall that even before exiled Israel turned to God, he sent representatives urging them to come back. Whether Paul or the elders in the Corinth congregation took some initiative to check on the disfellowshipped man, the Bible does not say. When that man had repented and ended his immorality, Paul directed the congregation to reinstate him.

  .......some disfellowshipped persons will never be ‘revived to repentance.’ (Hebrews 6:4-6; 2 Peter 2:20-22)
• 

  merfi

  This may be how it's SUPPOSED to be, it doesn't happen this way.

  I practically had these "passages" memorized going into my last JC. I wanted the elders help, I wanted "restored". I was repentant, I was weak not wicked. I had stopped doing the things that I had been -- I had turned around. I was not "stubbornly refusing" to correct my wayward path -- I already had. It was all there. My heart was sad, my conscience was all but knocking me over. I'd brought reproach on jehovah and the congregation... *I* called the elders to set up a time to get my "help".

  Instead (check out my 'newbie' post and another in the "JC" topic) I was mentally and emotionally abused for four hours. It was a kangaroo court -- I was guilty until proven innocent, and they had already decided what they wanted to do with me. My elders have known me for over 15 years. I thought they cared.... I read on here that their treatment has been likened to "mental rape". That is exactly how I felt.

  I did not give them the satisfaction of DFing me as they wanted. That JC was my straw... my turning point. There was no "agape" love here, no "philia"... it was all conditional. It was all bullcrap. I wrote my DA letter in the two days after my JC and I haven't looked back.

  ~merfi