by lola28 36 Replies latest jw friends
For a really long time I have believed that there is no such thing as God. Last night I had a talk with someone and this one idea came to me, what if there is a god, but he is not perfect, and where did this idea of god=perfect come from? Is there any Scipture that says God is perfect? Any thoughts?
lola
I can't recall the scriptures but surely Biblically God is described as perfect eg Jesus said become perfect like your father is perfect.
Just to mention a few.
It's entirely possible that there are other intelligent creatures in the universe. And it's reasonable to think that if they could exist, they could be smarter and/or more powerful than us. Given the size of the universe, it seems very unlikely that we're alone, and even less so that out of all of it, we happen to be the smartest and most powerful out there.
How much smarter and more powerful than us would a creature have to be to qualify as a god?
Dave
you can make any god you need to save you from the horror of the deepest night. Death stocks us all, wouldn't it be so much better then nice if we had a chance of continued existance. I don't belive in God at the moment but the couple times i thought i would die, man did i call on him. no doubt when the time comes i will choose to make a glorious loving god to recieve my dream of a soul. god help us all.
However, there is also a possibility that we have an idea of what perfection means that is flawed. I don't know if you have considered that possibility.
I have never read in the Bible where the word imperfection occurs, and Job was called perfect.
Abraham was perfected in righteousness.
2 Samuel 22:33 says God can make our way perfect. Psalm 18:32 is a reprint of the same verse from the same song.
Matthew 5:48 instructs that we must be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect. Jesus, in effect, told the rich young ruler that his possessions stood between him and perfection (which would not be true of every wealthy person).
Romans 12:2 speaks of the perfect will of God, and James tells us whoever does observe the word of God is perfect. Love is a perfect bond of union.
Jesus was made perfect through sufferings and obedience. (Hebrews 5:7-10) The Law made nothing perfect (in and of itself). But the one sacrifice of Jesus produces those who are being sanctified perfect perpetually. Our sins have already been paid for. (Hebrews 10:1-18) Christ perfects now ( Hebrews 12:18-24).
John tells us that perfect love throws fear outside.
I think most of us carry a flawed concept of Scriptural perfection.
The word "imperfect" appears 0 times in the NWT Bible and 1,721 times in the Watchtower volumes on the WT Library CD ROM (2003). The word "imperfection" occurs 0 times in the NWT, and 605 times in the same Watchtower volumes collection. That is not counting references in any other publication than Watchtower magazines on the CD ROM.
I wonder from whence our misconception might have arisen?
Respectfully,
AuldSoul
However, there is also a possibility that we have an idea of what perfection means that is flawed. I don't know if you have considered that possibility.
Nope I had not thought about that, but now my question would be what does it mean to be perfect?
lola
In my opinion? Suitable, serviceable, fitting, capable, or worthwhile.
The way I see what the Bible says, "we all sin and fall short of the glory of God" however, "our sins have been blotted out" by means of a "perpetual sacrifice."
If our sins are blotted out, then are we sinful? Do we miss the mark?
In my opinion, by grace we are sanctified perfect in every moment. Some say grace = undeserved kindness, which to me leaves us as somehow lacking. To me, grace completes us so that nothing is lacking, perfects us, and makes us worthwhile. Just another perspective, though. No more correct than any other, I suppose. But it is a comforting perspective for me.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul
Perfection is a difficult word to define and all the more so because humans have never experienced a perfect state, but I suppose it's a state of total fairness and bliss where everything done is agreeable and upbuilding for the fellowman and all human necessities including emotional and intellectual ones are fully gratified.
Isn't AuldSoul such a bright guy? How you doing, buddy?
Lola, reading your post reminded me of one of the seminal events in my leaving the Witnesses, and in leaving all belief in the Bible or a higher power. I simply decided I would read the Bible without any preconceived, especially Watchtower-inspired ideas. It took just 18 chapters of Genesis to end my belief in the Bible as god's inspired word.
Several things became obvious: There are at least two, if not three, very different creation stories. In the first one, everything ends up "good." In one of the others, as we know, everything went to hell.
Second, the god of Genesis is deeply flawed, far from all-knowing and all-seeing, and in general just not too smart. He doesn't know what's going on with Adam and Eve, or the serpent, for that matter, and ends up lying to them. He's just heard rumors about what's happening at Sodom and Gomorrah, and has to hike over there to see for himself. Then Abraham, considerably more ethical and compassionate than Jehovah, tries to argue the old fool out of destroying the cities. Jehovah lunches out with Abraham as well.
It became very obvious to me that the Bible takes quite a while before it begins to talk about an all-powerful, perfect god. Prior to that Jehovah was just like nearly every other god men have created and worshipped - flawed, proud, violent and abusive. A reflection in what is worst in humankind.
No, your idea of an imperfect god is far from new or original or crazy. It's been essentially the norm for the past 10,000 years of religion.
S4
