Fulfilling Philippians 2:9-11

by Honesty 5 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Honesty

  According to WATCHTOWER doctrines "apostates" who have left the JW club will not be resurrected when they die. If an "apostate" dies before Armageddon then how can he or she fulfill Philippians 2:9-11?

  Phil 2:9-11 For this reason God also highly exalted Him and gave Him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow— of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth— and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

  I strongly suspect the WATCHTOWER's answer to this question would be revised many times as "New Light" becomes available.

  Any ideas on how us "apostates" will bend our knees and confess with our tongues if we aren't going to be resurrected?
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  Narkissos

  Good point.

  As far as I have seen the WT restricts the scope of "those under the earth" to the dead in she'ol / hades, i.e. (by WT teachings) those who will be resurrected. The dead that will not be resurrected (i.e. in gehenna, lake of fire, second death) simply do not count.

  The doctrine of annihilation (the dead do not exist) is not an adequate explanation because it applies equally to both categories.

  I think a common (unwritten?) belief among JWs is that all those who die forever know what is happening to them at the moment of death, but if it applies to the OT "judgements" it doesn't refer to "Jesus" as per Philippians; and how would that apply to the millions of children killed in an Armaggedon scenario?

  (Not to mention the fact that "those under the ground" can also refer to the chastised angels according to the apocalyptic conceptions of the NT, a fact which the WT denies by making them demons active on the earth).
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  ozziepost

  Honesty:

  every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

  It makes a great song too, eh?
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  XJW4EVR

  First, nowhere in this Scripture is it taught that every person shall bow & confess. The passage states should bow & confess. In the Greek this is called a hina clause, and it indicates a moral obligation to do something. There is no obligating shall taught in this verse

  Second, I don't think that anywhere in the Scriptures is it taught that non-believers will ever bow & confess.
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  Honesty

  Honesty:

  every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

  It makes a great song too, eh?

  Sure does. We have one here in the States that you Aussies sing, too: How Great Is Our God Somehow I just don't see it being sung in a Kingdumb Hall. You are correct it does say should. I guess the unbelievers are left out then. I confess and I bow to Jesus but the Watchtower still calls me an apostate.
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  Narkissos

  First, nowhere in this Scripture is it taught that every person shall bow & confess. The passage states should bow & confess. In the Greek this is called a hina clause, and it indicates a moral obligation to do something. There is no obligating shall taught in this verse

  That's the problem with English grammar I guess: a very limited number of forms for so many functions.

  Actually "should" is only required to indicate subjunctive mood in the subordinate clause introduced by "so that". It has nothing to do with the idea of "moral obligation", which it would suggest in a main clause, e.g. "I should do that".

  This structure ("so that" + subjunctive) is quite similar to the Greek one (hina + subjunctive): they indicate at least a consequence, at most a final goal.

  So the text may be understood as: "As a result of God raising Jesus... every knee will bow"

  Or: "God raised Jesus so that every knee bows"

  (Actually the structure is a bit ambiguous because the hina clause might be construed as responding to the dio kai in v. 9, which at first reading connects it to the previous sentence. But my point is that the idea of "moral obligation" is a misunderstanding resulting from the specific ambiguity of the English translation; it cannot happen in the Greek text.)