Heart Patients Not Helped By Praying

by JAVA 14 Replies latest jw friends

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  JAVA

  I thought the following AP article was interesting, and some on the forum might, too. It reads in part:

  "By MALCOLM RITTER AP Science Writer

  March 30,2006 | NEW YORK -- In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications.

  Researchers emphasized that their work can't address whether God exists or answers prayers made on another's behalf. The study can only look for an effect from prayers offered as part of the research, they said.

  They also said they had no explanation for the higher complication rate in patients who knew they were being prayed for, in comparison to patients who only knew it was possible prayers were being said for them.

  Critics said the question of God's reaction to prayers simply can't be explored by scientific study.

  The work, which followed about 1,800 patients at six medical centers, was financed by the Templeton Foundation, which supports research into science and religion. It will appear in the American Heart Journal."
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  juni

  Very interesting!
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  JAVA

  Thanks juni, but from the number of folks viewing the topic, most don't think it's too "interesting."
  I guess this topic didn't have a prayer. :)
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  Undecided

  Most people recover from sickness, so whoever prays for them thinks they had something to do with their recovery, after all didn't they get better. When they die they just think God had other plans.

  Ken P.
• 

  funkyderek

  Critics said the question of God's reaction to prayers simply can't be explored by scientific study.

  Of course it can. If prayer has a measurable effect on survival rates or prosperity or anything else, it can be measured. If it doesn't, then isn't it better to know? A god whose effects are completely indistinguishable from chance is not worth wasting prayers on.
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  Robdar

  There isn't enough info to know how "scientific" this study was. Your post said:

  In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications.

  Seems to me that the study, in order to gain any accurate, unbiased info, would have been a double blind experiment.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-blind

  The Double blind method is an important part of the scientific method, used to prevent research outcomes from being influenced by the placebo effect or observer bias. Blinded research is an important tool in many fields of research, from medicine, to psychology and the social sciences, to forensics.
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  JAVA

  Seems to me that the study, in order to gain any accurate, unbiased info, would have been a double blind experiment.

  Good point Robdar; of course some people may not appreciate others praying for them. I think those who believe in prayer might not wish to be in a study unless they were certain they were getting prayers. There goes the double blind . . .

  The group receiving prayers in this study had slightly more post-op complications than the group not receiving prayers. If the study had different results, I think we would have been seeing more about it in the US media.
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  unclebruce

  Prayer can serve a number of purposes for both the prayer and the one being preyed upon prayed at. For the recipient it may be a comfort to know that people are out there who earnestly and sincerely care that he/she get well. For the prayer it may be of some psycological benefit in directing/stabilising ones emotions at a time of great stress.

  Sir Weary Dunlop the famous Australian doctor who served in the Japanese death camps during WWII reported that after years of deprivation, once a man gave up hope he could/would be dead within hours. There were literally no God believers in those camps (not even one apparently) but a positive attitude kept men alive who should have been long dead. I can see how, for those into it, prayer could play a similar role (deluded though it is to the likes of unbeliever me).

  not in jesus name, unclebruce

  PS: If any of you silly bleet'n Christians are out there praying for me - stop it this instant you hear! Stooop iiit! .. yes you too shelby!
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  gumby

  Does god NEED others to pray for a person? Why? Why isn't the one prayer of the one asking not enough? Bible characters didn't need several prayers to get godly results, why would it change?

  Did Moses need an intercessor?

  Gumby
• 

  Robdar

  Good point Robdar; of course some people may not appreciate others praying for them.

  True.

  I think those who believe in prayer might not wish to be in a study unless they were certain they were getting prayers. There goes the double blind . . .

  I disagree. There would be ways around the above issue. Sorry to cut and paste but I leave in 15 minutes for the art gallery:

  Double-blind trials

  Double-blind describes an especially stringent way of conducting an experiment, usually on human subjects, in an attempt to eliminate subjective bias on the part of both experimental subjects and the experimenters. In most cases, double-blind experiments are held to achieve a higher standard of scientific rigour.

  In a double-blind experiment, neither the individuals nor the researchers know who belongs to the control group and the experimental group. Only after all the data are recorded (and in some cases, analyzed) do the researchers learn which individuals are which. Performing an experiment in double-blind fashion is a way to lessen the influence of the prejudices and unintentional physical cues on the results (the placebo effect, observer bias, and experimenter effect). Random assignment of the subject to the experimental or control group is a critical part of double-blind research design. The key that identifies the subjects and which group they belonged to is kept by a third party and not given to the researchers until the study is over.

  Double-blind methods can be applied to any experimental situation where there is the possibility that the results will be affected by conscious or unconscious bias on the part of the experimenter

  The group receiving prayers in this study had slightly more post-op complications than the group not receiving prayers. If the study had different results, I think we would have been seeing more about it in the US media.

  Probably so....