What does the WTS mean when they talk about a human soul? (page 2)

Peter123

Thanks Moggy and Narkissos,

Soul, spirit, divine beings, life after death: I guess all of this is my way of trying to grapple with the religious teachings I learned as a child and where I am now. As a JW, every teaching was indisputable -- until the FDS changed it. Now I am totally unreligious. I've explored other religions and I believe that no religion has an empirical answer. They're all based on the ineffable, the indescribable. It's a parade of blind people running through a vast wasteland, all of them thinking the person in front of them can see. Faith seems to be the ego's way of denying its own finality, of making us feel safe as we trip along the edge of the abyss.

Sure, I wished I had something spiritual in my life. Yes, I do know there are such things as love, compassion, kindness and beauty -- but the opposites are also true. If there is a god -- he's got som' 'splainin' to do.

Peter

Carmel

another view point...

"Verily I say, the human soul is, in its essence, one of the signs of God, a mystery among His mysteries. It is one of the mighty signs of the Almighty, the harbinger that proclaimeth the reality of all the worlds of God. Within it lieth concealed that which the world is now utterly incapable of apprehending. Ponder in thine heart the revelation of the Soul of God that pervadeth all His Laws, and contrast it with that base and appetitive nature that hath rebelled against Him, that forbiddeth men to turn unto the Lord of Names, and impelleth them to walk after their lusts and wickedness. Such a soul hath, in truth, wandered far in the path of error...

Thou hast, moreover, asked Me concerning the state of the soul after its separation from the body. Know thou, of a truth, that if the soul of man hath walked in the ways of God, it will, assuredly, return and be gathered to the glory of the Beloved. By the righteousness of God! It shall attain a station such as no pen can depict, or tongue describe. The soul that hath remained faithful to the Cause of God, and stood unwaveringly firm in His Path shall, after his ascension, be possessed of such power that all the worlds which the Almighty hath created can benefit through him. Such a soul provideth, at the bidding of the Ideal King and Divine Educator, the pure leaven that leaveneth the world of being, and furnisheth the power through which the arts and wonders of the world are made manifest. Consider how meal needeth leaven to be leavened with. Those souls that are the symbols of detachment are the leaven of the world. Meditate on this, and be of the thankful.

In several of Our Tablets We have referred to this theme, and have set forth the various stages in the development of the soul. Verily I say, the human soul is exalted above all egress and regress. It is still, and yet it soareth; it moveth, and yet it is still. It is, in itself, a testimony that beareth witness to the existence of a world that is contingent, as well as to the reality of a world that hath neither beginning nor end. Behold how the dream thou hast dreamed is, after the lapse of many years, re-enacted before thine eyes. Consider how strange is the mystery of the world that appeareth to thee in thy dream. Ponder in thine heart upon the unsearchable wisdom of God, and meditate on its manifold revelations...."

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 160)

unclebruce

Maybe this has been discussed here before. (I'm relatively new and I don't read the site everyday/or week.) But, if I remember correctly, the WTS defined the human soul as being merely one's physical body. Then they took a scripture from Genesis about "the breath of life." So, everything that "breathes" is a soul, be it animal or insect. Is my understanding correct?
And if so, where does a human fetus fit into this WT explanation?
Peter

G'day Peter123,

The Watchtower cover their anti-abortion stance by teaching that babies 'breath in the womb' and thus have a soul (from the moment of conception?). Sorry I can't at this point quote chapter and verse on this.

unclebruce

===

Hm, I wonder, if featuses (in WT-doctrine) are humans, then how will Jehobah ressurect all those aborted featuses? They would have to be "ressurected" inside the womb, I guess, and then be carried full-term. What about women who`ve had many abortions? Do the featuses have to...wait turn? Marilyn Monroe supposedly had 12 abortions. She might be feeling very "full" in the "new system", I think.

That's just sick hellrider! lol I hope the society's art dept isn't made aware of this post or they'll be using pics of resurected Elvis and Marylin as watchtower bait.

aniron

When I became a JW in the 1970's I was taught that

body = the flesh, bones and blood.

soul = was a persons personality.

spirit = the life force that kept the body working.

Beep,Beep

""where does a human fetus fit into this WT explanation?"" I'm not sure why you asked. Going back to when our first child was as yet unborn my wife's doctor gave me the impression that she was "breathing" in the womb.

Peter123

Thanks for the responses.

Regards "breathing in the womb"? Physically, wouldn't the fetus drown in the amniotic fluid it's floating in? I thought an unborn child got all of its nutrients, including oxygen, through the mother's blood in the umbilical cord? Its lungs are not physically working until its born -- that's why it's great for the baby to have a good cry and get those lobes working ... right?

OK, I'm confused. I thought I recalled way back when I was a kid there being that talk (and someone else here also mentioned it) that stillborn and aborted fetuses would not be resurrected because they were not breathing.

But, who really knows what the temporal, spacial, consciousness BOTTOM LINE is? I mean, as far as I'm concerned, wouldn't it be great if everyone -- no matter what age or religion -- got to hang out and raise hell together and have a screamin' good time forever!

Peter

unclebruce

OK, I'm confused. I thought I recalled way back when I was a kid there being that talk (and someone else here also mentioned it) that stillborn and aborted fetuses would not be resurrected because they were not breathing.

G'day Peter,

I remmember this too. We may well have stumbled™ accross another case of the Watchtower™ playing it both ways. If I recall correctly we were 'reliably informed'™' that a fetus 'breaths' in the sense that it recieves oxygen. This was/is in a watchtower publication somewhere. I remember them quoting some medico and part of the argument being that the lungs actually work in the womb (by tansfering a certain amount of oxygen to the bloodstream).

I'll be cranking up my new 2005 WTCD soon and will try a search for it.

cheers, unclebruce.

Peter123

Australians have so much class -- in a robust kind of way.

Peter

moggy lover

Now that you've got me thinking...... I seem to remember something else that the guy I mentioned earlier said. To him [and by extension the WTS] the clinching argument for a fetus not receiving a resurrection was "God's memory" Remember that joojoo ber the god of the WTS is not self contained in knowledge, as would be expected in an infinite deity. In fact, "he" [it?] has to learn from experience and is dependant, like us, on an accumulation of facts.

OK, having said that, your "resurrection" would then be dependant on joojooetc having a memory of your antics. If you intentionally kicked a pesky JW up the arse one day, well that "memory" stays with "himself", and you will find yourself permanently dead. Get it?

Same difference with the fetus. It ain't done nothing to merit a memory. The tape is blank. Zilch. Sorry, mate, no record of so-and-so, therefore: no resurrection.

Yeah, right.

Evidently the WTS "god" is crass enough not to keep a living being, such as fetus in his[its] memory.

Cheers

What does the WTS mean when they talk about a human soul?

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