My jw is aware of the pyramids and 1914 but says 'they haven't used the pyramids in years' and the date is from 'biblical chronology'. Although, he can't explain it.
Pyramids and 1914
by smudge 19 Replies latest jw friends
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Honesty
Carla, give him a tablespoon dose of this thread along with Atlantis' scan of page 105 of the blasphemous WT publication, Revelation - Its Grand Climax at Hand!. It may wake him up to the WATCHTOWER Lie.
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james_woods
Which came first, the Pyramid measures, or the 606/607 - 1914/Daniel stuff?
As I remembered it, the 1874 was Seventh Day nonsense based on the same Daniel chronology but with a different start date. Russell made up the pyramid stuff himself (or maybe with the other WT early day guys that he kicked out) in the 1880-1899 time frame. Then, after that, he bumps the Daniel start date and parallels the pyramid stuff to get 1913, adds it up again and gets 1914.
Is it possible that he went back and "forced the balance" on 607 to just get to where he wanted to be from the pyramid junk?
James
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Nathan Natas
Hi Smudge,
I have had several studies with several J.W.s as I am very interested in theology and most of my in-laws are J.W. On many occasions I asked to see the very complicated way that the year 1914 was obtained. Everyone of my studies told me not to worry about it, that it involves much complicated math and it has been checked over and over and is right. Do J.W.s know where this date actually comes from? It comes from the internal measurements of the Great Pyramid's passage ways, done by Charles Russell and published in his research. Check out http://neirr.org/pyramidscheme.htm. Why do J.W.'s not mention this? Are they not aware of their own history, their pyramid obsessed founder? His tombstone is even a pyramid. I realise that The Watchtower seem to be trying to distance themselves from this date now, as it is not mention very often anymore, but tell me why it has been used all these years? 6 million Jehovah Witness didn't bother to check this date out for themselves or were discouraged to do so. How many people would join this religion if they knew this, so called complicated date, only involved a tape measure, a crazy man and a trip to Egypt.
Just a few details: A. the calculations that CTR used that were based on the internal measurements of the Giza Pyramid were not taken from the monument itself, but from a DRAWING of the monument! B. Russell didn't visit the pyramid until years after he fabricated his fantasy. He based his ideas on the wrtings of people who weren't even members of his flock. Later on, some Scottish Bible Students bought in on the baloney farm and lent their "credibility" to the enterprise. C. Russell's tombstone is NOT a pyramid. It is a traditional tombstone. But near Russell's tombstone is a pyramid, and that pyramid marks the center of the portion of the cemetery that is owned by the Bible Students. That pyramid, by the way, is hollow, and when originally erected it held copies of all Russell's work. That material has been stolen, so now there is nothing inside the pyramid. E. The calculations are not "complicated math." It is basic ARITHMETIC and involves no symbolic notation, exponents or square roots. If you can balance a checkbook, you can do the "hard math." I find it hilarious that today's dumbed down witnesses cannot explain one of the fundemental doctrines of their belief system. Aren't witnesses supposed to be able to give an answer to anyone who asks the reasons for their faith? I'm laughing too at what CARLA said -
My jw is aware of the pyramids and 1914 but says 'they haven't used the pyramids in years' and the date is from 'biblical chronology'. Although, he can't explain it.
"Haven't used it in year." Oh, OK, I guess that lets them off the hook. What a moron!
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Justin
As has been noted, the Pyramid was merely used to corroborate Russell's conclusions based on other grounds. To read Russell's own comments on the calculations for 1914, see Studies in the Scriptures, Volume II, The Time is at Hand, Study IV - The Times of the Gentiles.
Here is a link: http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/htd0088.htm .
Russell referred to Jesus' prediction as found at Luke 21:24 (KVJ): "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." Russell understood the trampling of Jerusalem by Gentiles to have begun, not when the Romans destroyed the city in 70 C.E., but when it was overthrown by the Babylonians, which (according to Russell) was in 606 B.C.E. (The Society later changed the date to 607 B.C.E., but historians prefer 586 B.C.E.)
Today Jehovah's Witnesses obtain the length of the Gentile Times by referring to the fourth chapter of Daniel in which King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon dreams about a great tree which is cut down and its stump is banded, not allow it to grow again for "seven times." While the book of Daniel applies the vision only to Nebuchadnezzar, the WTS sees in these "seven times" a cryptic reference to the times of the Gentiles. As the "seven times" fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar were supposedly seven years, the seven Gentile times would be the equivalent. It is claimed that the average Jewish lunar year is 360 days (and is consistently so in prophecy), so that 7 x 360 = 2,520 days. Applying the "day for a year" principle, we arrive at 2,520 years. (See Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6.) Counting 2,520 years forward from 606 B.C. gave Russell the date of A.D. 1914.
Russell expected the reversal in 1914 of what had occurred in 606 B.C. In that year (according to his reckoning) the Gentiles began trampling in the literal city of Jerusalem. So Russell thought that in 1914 there would a a reestablishment of a Jewish theocracy in the land of Palestine. The "earthly phase" of the kingdom of God would be Jewish. The WTS has since accepted replacement theology (i.e., the view that the Christian church has replaced the nation of Israel) so that the Jerusalem which in their thinking was restored in 1914 was the spiritual or heavenly Jerusalem.
For Russell, 1914 was the end point of his calculations, whereas for Jehovah's Witnesses that year was just the beginning of the end. Also, Russell' primary argument in favor of 1914 being the end of the Gentile Times was not Nebuchadnezzar's "tree dream." Russell referred to another mention of "seven times" in the book of Leviticus. There Jehovah warns Israel of the consequences of disobedience: "And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins." (Lev. 26:18, emphasis added; see also verses 21, 24, 28) Russell calculated that one time was 360 day/years, and seven times would be 2,520 years. The beginning of Israel's punishment was (supposedly) in 606 B.C. when Jerusalem was overthrown, and the end would be in A.D. 1914 with the restoration of the theocracy. But today, the WTS cannot use this argument at all, not only because of nonfulfillment, but because it has accepted replacement theology.
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Lady Liberty
Dear Smudge,
WELCOME!! I can relate to your post!! Please read my story, as the whole pyramid/607 issue is what made me wake up! I have until a year ago been a witness all my life... 38 years. The story I posted will give you a idea as to how clueless the witness really are about their own history. Please, if you have the time, let me know what you think after reading it. Under Friends, entitled, It's High Time I Introduced Myself. By Lady Liberty. If you cannot find it, look up my topics under my name and you will see it. Thanks for your post. We look forward to hearing more from you.
Sincerely,
Lady Liberty
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Nathan Natas
Justin, that was a good synopsis, but I'm not sure about one thing.
You said, "For Russell, 1914 was the end point of his calculations,"
But wasn't Russell looking for 1918 to bring some sort of fulfillment?
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Justin
Nathan,
The 1918 date was predicted after 1914. It is found in the Watch Tower of September 1916, just a month before Russell's death. See http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/r5950.htm .
After 1914 Russell had to make some adjustments. He had claimed that the period from 1874 to 1914 was a forty-year harvest which would end with the complete destruction of Christendom as foreshadowed by the destruction of Jerusalem. This would mean that the year 70 C.E. would be the counterpoint in time to Christendom's destruction, initially expected in 1914. When this did not occur, he added three and a half years and came up with 1918. This apparently was because the last Jewish stronghold at Massada fell in the year 73 C.E. This did not mean (according to Russell) that the Gentile Times did not end in 1914, only that the harvest would extend to 1918.
But, when using the Scripture Studies, I try to put myself in the original time frame of 1874 - 1914, because that's when Russell's teachings were originally meant to apply. Once that timeframe was past, it caused problem's for Russell's followers - even those who tried to stick as closely as possible to the original teachings.
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Justin
My original link to the Scripture Studies isn't working. Here's a better one: http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/htdb0088.htm .Also, I've reviewed the 1916 WT article from the second link, and it's only fair to say that although Russell extended the time parallel to 1918, he seems to have allowed for the harvest work to continue for some years without regard to date.