by Kristofer 38 Replies latest jw experiences
Kris
Currently reading CoC, only 20% through it at the moment but its blowing me away. If anyone could be in the faith after reading this, and i haven't finished it, then they must have a very strange viewpoint of what 'truth' really is. Big respect to Freddie!!
Peace
Lowden
For those who haven't read Crisis of Conscience and would like an idea of what's in it--see the online chapters listed at the bottom of the Wikipedia article on Raymond Franz:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Franz
There are several chapters online. After reading those you may want to order a copy to read the whole book.
Reading CoC didn't really do much for me, it just confirmed what I'd already thought for years as a jw. The book that really made me think was 'Combatting cult mind control' by Steve Hassan. It deals with his experiences as a moonie, and explains the psychological techniques used to recruit and retain members. Exit counselors claim that when cult members who receive an intervention showing how deceptive techniques have been used 90% go on to leave the group (M Langone, ed, Recovery from cults, 1995, pg163)
Gadget, do you think that book would work for someone who was born in into the Org? I think there is less "recruitment" there.
Gadget, do you think that book would work for someone who was born in into the Org
I was born into the org. It made me look at things that happened in a totally different way.
I too am an active Jw who has read CoC. I guess it depends on your expectation of the brotherhood. I could see how it would effect a JW who has been involved since the 50's than it would someone like me. I always knew that Fred Franz had to wipe his nose after he blew it, had to wear pants (and at times extremely funny T-Shirts) and take dumps. Ie..I knew he was a human.
While it is silly to question Ray's honesty as there is no good reason to do so- as he seems like a highly moral honest fellow, but it is not silly to question his opinion, for instance: when he makes reference to how the GB spends little time praying and contemplating one must wonder if the other 10+ GB members would agree with him, or if this is a rogue opinion hindered by his negative experience. He gives a few examples to bolster his claim, but I would still question it in general. I have no doubt that the Ray Franz incident was handled poorly by the brothers and was an instance of paranoia. I personally feel Ray had views that were not sound, like with structure, and I also wonder if he did not preach this divergent view in Alabama (Georgia? Mississippi?.)
Dozy, I knew he had issues with Silent Lambs and Bill Bowen, did he also defend the "Two Witness" rule?
but without knowing the other side of the accounts he discusses- Exactly, why don't you write Brooklyn and tell them we were discussing these issues here at JWD and ask them to open their books and records? Then we can see both sides.
one must wonder if the other 10+ GB members would agree with him,- Same comment, why don't you write Brooklyn or ask your elders about the comment Ray made in his 'apostate' book and how people were discussing here at JWD and ask them?
Yes - I read it a few years ago and am still a JW. My wife did and is still a (devout) JW. Franz writes well , but without knowing the other side of the accounts he discusses , it is impossible to establish a term of reference on his book alone. Some ex-witnesses are not big Franz fans - he doesn't support the Silentlambs program , claiming that child abuse isn't a problem in the WTS. Nevertheless , both his books are fascinating background reading , if a little dated now (he has been out of the loop for many years).
I lived not all that far from where he was living when he was Df'd. I heard all the apostasy and trying to start his own cult rumors that flew around at the time. But I also knew a few folks and found out why his local Congregation Df'd him long before I read it on the net.
As for his decision not to ally himself with any particular group within the ex-JW community, I think that was a wise decision on his part. Just about any group would've loved to have him on board, and I don't doubt many have tried to get him. But when I remember all the rumors I heard about him trying to start his own cult, I can see why he doesn't want to do anything that could possibly give any credence to them. The only positive recourse he really had was to write those books. I respect his resisting the temptation to do otherwise!
Forscher
I read the older version...can anyone tell me what's different in the updated one?
Best book I've ever read. I especially loved the chapters "Predictions and Presumption" and "Justification and Intimidation", as well as the chapters on 1975 and the 1914 generation. The Justification and Intimidation chapter was especially enlightening in showing how WTS literature intellectually bullies the reader into accepting the arguments being presented.
I read the older version...can anyone tell me what's different in the updated one?
The chapter dealing with the "Generations" new light in 1995 is excellent, and I believe it is only in the 3rd and 4th editions.
Also, for those who haven't read it - Ray's personal story only makes up part of the book, this isn't just a recounting of his personal experiences, there is much much more to it than that. And you can decide for yourself if his telling of events rings true with your own personal experience with the organization. I feel that he is very credible.
