My husband and I for the first time had an honest discussion regarding JW doctrines, he believes in the flawlessness of the society, so he is not easy to talk to. He did agree however that if 607 is not correct that the society has it all wrong. Well to say the least that was an interesting turn of events. He also stated that the society has never said in black and white that the end was coming on any date and the society as always pointed to 1914 as Jesus presence.
So here is what I need:
I need either scaned copies or ones that I can buy stating anydates the society said Armagedon is coming.
I would also like any information I could get on the UN Scandal, as far as scans or a number which I could call the verify for him the situation.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP!!!!!
PS. I can't spend much time on the internet, he is suspicious right now
PLEASE HELP ME!
by UNCLEAR 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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UNCLEAR
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blondie
THE JUBILEE
An understanding of the jubilee system which Jehovah inaugurated with Israel throws a great light upon the immediate future events. The Scriptures clearly show that Israel, while God dealt with them for more than eighteen centuries, was a typical people. Their law was typical, foreshadowing greater and better things to come. The Lord commanded Moses to institute the Sabbath system the year that Israel entered the land of Canaan, which was 1575 years before A. D. 1 (Leviticus 25:1-12), and that every fiftieth year should be unto them a year of jubilee. This was done on the tenth day of the seventh month, the day of atonement. "And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year and proclaim freedom throughout the land unto all the inhabitants thereof; it shall be a jubilee unto you and ye shall return every man unto his possessions and ye shall return every man unto his family. Other Scriptures show that there were to be Page 88
seventy jubilees kept. (Jeremiah 25:11; 2 Chronicles 36:17-21) A simple calculation of these jubilees brings us to this important fact: Seventy jubilees of fifty years each would be a total of 3500 years. That period of time beginning 1575 before A. D. 1 of necessity would end in the fall of the year 1925, at which time the type ends and the great antitype must begin. What, then, should we expect to take place? In the type there must be a full restoration; therefore the great antitype must mark the beginning of restoration of all things. The chief thing to be restored is the human race to life; and since other Scriptures definitely fix the fact that there will be a resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful ones of old, and that these will have the first favor, we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected and fully restored to perfect humanity and made the visible, legal representatives of the new order of things on earth. Messiah's kingdom once established, Jesus and his glorified church constituting the great Messiah, shall minister the blessings to the people they have so long desired and hoped for and prayed might come. And when that time comes, there will be peace and not war, as the prophet beautifully states: "In the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above Page 89
the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks; nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid; for the mouth of the Lord of hosts hath spoken it." -Micah 4:1-4.EARTHLY RULERS
As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in 1925. At that time the earthly phase of the kingdom shall be recognized. The Apostle Paul in the eleventh chapter of Hebrews names a long list of faithful men who died before the crucifixion of the Lord and before the beginning of the selection of the church. These can never be a part of the heavenly class; they had no heavenly hopes; but God has in store something good for them. They are to be resurrected as perfect men and constitute the princes or rulers in the earth, according to his promise. (Psalm 45:16; Isaiah 32:1; Matthew 8:11) Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Page 90
Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews chapter eleven, to the condition of human perfection.
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SixofNine
Congratulations. Your husband is not going to be a Jehovah's Witness much longer!
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unclebruce
I need either scaned copies or ones that I can buy stating anydates the society said Armagedon is coming
G'day UNCLEAR,
Here is a list of Watchtower dates by Kotwal of Investigator magazine (Adelaide South Australia) . Others, like Focus, have compiled much longer more comprehensive lists Randy's "Watchers of the Watchtower World" would be a good place to look). unclebruce :::
1874 I know of three people who sat all day long with others, watching, I think it was the 2nd of October, 1874, right in Chicago, in their ascension robes, looking up into the sky for Jesus to come and take them away. But the sun went down and Jesus did not come... I know one dear old sister who was there, old Sister Johnson of Los Angeles, she is 91years old. In 1874 she sat here in this city with her ascension robes on, and Jesus did not come. She is Norwegian. She said, in broken language, I know it was time for Jesus to come, but he did not come, and I did not know what to make of it. Souvenir Notes Bible Students Conventions 1913, p. 1021878 Based on Paul’s statement at 1 Corinthians 15:51, 52 it had been expected ‘that at some time the living saints would be suddenly and miraculously caught away bodily, thenceforth to be for ever with the Lord.’ Believing this would take place in 1878, some were disappointed because nothing occurred that they could see. Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose 1959, p.19
1881 OUR CHANGE SEEMS DUE. We do not know the day or the hour, but expect it during 1881, possibly near the autumn... Zion's Watchtower Reprints 1881, Feb. p. 191
1906 A great storm is near at hand. Though one may not know exactly when it will break forth, it seems reasonable to suppose it cannot be more than twelve of fourteen years yet future.
Zion’s Watchtower 1893, June p. 1941910 ...but a trouble chiefly upon the church may be expected about 1910 A.D. Studies in the Scriptures Volume 3, 1891, p. 364.
The culmination of the trouble in October, 1914, is clearly marked in the Scriptures; and we are bound therefore to expect a beginning of that severe trouble not later than 1910; — with severe spasms between now and then. Watchtower Reprints 1901, September 15, p. 2876.
1912 According to our expectation the stress of the great time of trouble will be on us soon, somewhere between 1910 and 1912 — culminating with the end of the "Times of the Gentiles," October, 1914. Studies in the Scriptures Volume 6, 1904, p. 579.
1914 And with the end of A.D. 1914, what God calls Babylon, and which men call Christendom, will have passed away, as already shown from prophecy. Studies in the Scriptures Volume 3, 1891, p. 153.
1915 Be not surprised then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty’ (Rev. 16:14) which will end in A.D. 1915, with the complete overthrow of earth’s present rulership, is already commenced. Studies in the Scriptures Volume 2, 1889, p. 101
1916/1917 The present great war is the beginning of the Armageddon of the Scriptures.Pastor Russell’s Sermons 1916, p. 676
1918 In one short year, 1917-1918, the vast and complicated system of sectarianism reaches its zenith of power, only to be suddenly dashed into oblivion. The Finished Mystery 1917, p. 285
1920 The three days in which Pharoah’s host pursued the Israelites into the wilderness represented the three years from 1917 to 1920 at which time all of Pharoah’s messengers will be swallowed up in the sea of anarchy. The Finished Mystery 1917, p. 258.
1921 It may be that the worldly nations will go down in the fall of 1921. Millions Now Living Will Never Die 1920, Australian edition p. 114.
1924 …we might expect the harvest to end 50 years after 1874 or with the end of 1924. The Watch Tower 1924, January 1 p. 5.
1925 Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the faithful prophets of old... Millions Now Living Will Never Die 1920, Australian Edition pp. 91, 93, 101, 112-120.
1926 Let us suppose that you are living after the Kingdom is established and the blessings have begun to flow out to the people in abundant measure. Of course it will take some time to get things in smoothly running order after the great stress between now and 1926. It may take ten years before you get your home all fixed up... The Way to Paradise 1924, p. 328
1928 So the generation now upon the earth is the generation that was on earth in 1878, and many of them must abide until God’s favor is fully returned to the Jews, and the Kingdom set up. Souvenir Notes Bible Students Conventions 1913, p. 235.
Compare:
Because the time has come for the fulfillment of these great truths, because the Lords kingdom is at hand, and because a generation of people exists upon the earth in ordinary times for fifty years or more, we are now able to confidently say there are millions of people... The Standard for the People 1926, p. 50.1935/1936 Suppose we should be wrong in the chronology and that the kingdom will not be fully set up in 1925. Suppose that we were ten years off, and it would be 1935 before restitution blessings began. Without a doubt there are now millions of people on the earth who will be living fifteen years from now; and we could with equal confidence say that ‘Millions Now Living will Never Die’. Whether it be 1925 or 1935, restitution blessings must soon begin... The Watch Tower 1920 October 15, p. 310.
During the few remaining months until the breaking of that universal cataclysm the powers that rule the nations of the earth will continue to make treaties… Universal War Near 1934, p. 27.
1942 Let everyone now who really loves the Lord...make the few remaining months the greatest witness yet given or possible. The Watchtower 1941, July 15, p. 222.
Receiving the gift [the book Children], the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord’s provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon. The Watchtower 1941 September 15, p. 288.
1940s Those Jonadabs who now contemplate marriage, it would seem, would be better if they wait a few years, until the fiery storm of Armageddon is gone, and then to enter the marital relationship... Face the Facts 1938 p. 50.
The book Children (1941) is about two J W teenagers who decide to postpone marriage for "only a few years" (pp. 281, 328 Australian edition) until after Armageddon. Delay of marriage and of child-bearing until after Armageddon was taught in the book as the "divine mandate".
1950 It does not seem unreasonable, therefore, to think that twenty-five years, possibly more, will pass before the awakening of the dead shall begin. The Watchtower 1925, February 15, p. 58.
1950s? or 1960s? All the facts show that Armageddon is only a short time away, and that period much less than the length of a generation. Health and Life 1932, p. 24.
Compare:
The average length of human life is now approximately forty years.
(Ibid p. 20)1975 According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man’s creation will end in the fall of 1975 C.E. How appropriate it would be for Jehovah God to make this coming seventh period of a thousand years a Sabbath rest and release... It would be most fitting on God’s part... It would not be by mere chance or accident...Life Everlasting - In Freedom of the Sons of God 1966, pp. 28-29.
Before 1976-1986 It is to be carefully noted that the youngest of those who saw with understanding the developing sign of the end of this system of things from its start in 1914 are well over 60 years of age! In fact, the greater part of the adult generation that experienced the start of the "last days" has already passed away in death. Awake! 1966 October 8, p. 18.
Compare:
A generation according to Psalms 90:10, is from seventy to eighty years. The generation that witnessed the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 does not have many more years left. Luke 21:24, 32-36. The Watchtower 1968 December 1, p. 715.1970s But why is there reason to hope that this changeover may take place even within the present decade? Awake! 1971 October 8, p. 27, 28.
1989 (Implied) The Hebrews...reckon seventy five years as one generation. Awake! 1988 April 8, p. 14.
Within 20th century Shortly within our 20th century the ‘battle in the day of Jehovah’ will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom. The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah - How? 1971, p. 216.
Some of that ‘generation’ could survive until the end of the century. But there are many indications that ‘the end’ is much closer than that. The Watchtower 1984 March 1, p. 19.
This generation The generation that saw the beginning of woes in 1914 would also see the end of Satan and his entire wicked system of things. It is to be carefully noted that the youngest of those who saw with understanding the developing sign of the end of this system of things from its start in 1914 are now well over sixty years of age. Awake! 1966 October 8, p. 18.
~the end~
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UNCLEAR
The biggest problem I have is he will not take in evidence anything quoted, I will actually either have to get scanned documents or the real thing....he is a die hard believer so this is the only proof he will accept.
Does anyone know if there are scanned copies of the prediction of 1914 being actual Armagedon, or anyone I can contact. He is determined to prove me wrong and will only use the society's literature everything secular or quoted is apostate...OHHH PLEASE! Like the whole world is lieing!
I am also going to pick up A.K. Grayson's book Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles at the library today, since the society quotes from this source in the Insight book they obviously view this as authority regarding the 607 doctrine.
Also are there anyother books the society MISQUOTES as regards to doctrines? -
Check_Your_Premises
The biggest problem I have is he will not take in evidence anything quoted, I will actually either have to get scanned documents or the real thing....he is a die hard believer so this is the only proof he will accept.
Actually that is a typical jw candy ass response. Make him prove to you that isn't what they say. Show him the publication, page, and paragraph number. Defy him to go to the KH library and find that it isn't there. Put the burden on him.
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unclebruce
It's quite simple UNCLEAR - choose from any of the quotes I've given you or any of the thousands of others on the web and look them up in your own books/magazines (bound volumes aren't as good due to 'adjustments™' being made).
unclebruce
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Check_Your_Premises
Unclear,
It sounds like your become less unclear. It seems like you have had a very strong moment of clarity regarding the jw. I have seen many jws' show up on this board with doubts and go through a "rapid decompression".
Naturally you want your spouse to join you. You of all people understand how difficult it can be for a jw married to a non-jw. You have seen those relationships at work many times I am sure.
It is also natural to assume that the best way to help your spouse exit is to simply point out what is wrong with the JW teachings.
Makes logical sense.
The only problem is that logic has nothing to do with it. It is likely that you will make the problem worse, by causing your husband to lose trust in you!!!
Despite you recent awakenings, what you might not understand, realize, or appreciate is the power of mind control. That is what you were under. That is why you had doubts and contrary thoughts for years, but were only now able to accept them.
If I was you I would first try to understand CULTS. Try to understand mind control. Learn about how to talk to someone under the influence of mind control
I would recommend Combatting Cult Mind Control and/or Releasing the Bonds by Steven Hassan. These books will show you how to go about helping someone who is under the influence of mind control.
my 2 cents.
CYP
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bob1999
The WTS taught that 1874 was the second coming until 1930. In 1954 they tried to say that they had always taught 1914 as the second coming, but that is a lie.
The time of the Lord’s second presence dates from 1874...
(The Harp of God 1921 p. 231)
The Scriptures show that the second presence (of the Lord) was due in 1874... This proof shows that the Lord has been present since 1874...
(WT March 1, 1923 p. 67)
Surely there is not the slightest room for doubt that in the mind of a truly consecrated child of God that the Lord Jesus Christ is present and has been since 1874.
(WT January 1, 1924 p. 5)
The second coming of the Lord therefore began in 1874...
(Creation 1927 pp. 289, 291, 297, 298, 318)
The Scriptural proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ began in 1874 A.D.
(Prophecy 1929 p. 65)
Then,
“Jesus has been present since 1914” The Golden Age magazine (1930 p.503)
Later the WTS tried to say 1914 was always the date for Christ's return,
Why, then, do the nations not realize and accept the approach of this climax of judgment? It is because they have not heeded the world wide advertising of Christ’s return and his second Presence. Since long before World War I Jehovah’s witnesses pointed to 1914 as the time for this great event to occur.
(WT 1954 June 15 p. 370)
This is a lie.