ok so when i was leaving i wanted to check out the local Y and do some classes but i was always warned by so many people and articles in the W&A that they were tied in with churches and paying for a membership would be like giving money to other churches. i tried to look up that info from the quotes in older w&a's and couldn't even find the book that was quoted. i even grilled the people at the Y and repeatedly asked if it was or ever had been affiliated with a particular church. they denied ever having been involved with a particular church, just having christian morals in their mission statement. all this time there wasn't any biblical reason to avoid involvment in this place. another lie from the watchtower. anyone else have similar experiances regaurding the Y and jw's?
ymca and christianity
by aoxo 13 Replies latest social physical
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moanzy
I haven't any experience there, but I asked one time why we didn't help a starving child in another country?
I was told because the people would be taught by churches about God and not the truth and we don't want to support that. I guess that is suppose to be a good enough reason not to feed a starving to death child. Wouldn't Jesus be proud!
Moanzy
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luna2
Back when I was just studying, I actually joined the Y in town. It was perfect because they provided babysitting so that I could take an exercise class for an hour, get the boys out of lock-up when class was over, and go swimming with them. Everybody's happy and Mom gets in shape. Of course, as soon as the gal I was studying with found out, she left some bound volumes in my car with book marks at the appropriate Watchtower bullshit articles saying that belonging to the Y was like fornification with Babs the Great and Jehootie would kill me and, more importantly to my mind, my kids for it. I felt frustrated and stymied, but I complied with the WTS directives and cancelled my membership.
I wish, wish, wish I'd never opened the door to the JWs or that I was smarter or that there had been somebody who could have exposed the real truth about those idiots to me before I got all involved with them, I really do.
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Legolas
Here is the artical...
Questions from Readers • Is it true that for religious reasons Jehovah’s Witnesses may not become members of the YMCA (Young Men’s Christian Association)? Yes, that is so. We have long recognized that the YMCA, though not being a church as such, is definitely aligned with the religious organizations of Christendom in efforts to promote interfaith. In September 1885 the Watch Tower took this position: "Alas for the Bible-rearing practiced in the Y. M. C. Associations! They are completely under the control of the sectarians, by whom they are supported. Though professedly non-sectarian, professedly controlled by no creed but the Bible, they are more creed-bound than others, since they are bound by all the popular creeds."—P. 6. Later the underlying religious purpose and interfaith efforts of the YMCA were mentioned in the September 1964 issue of Kingdom Ministry, used by Jehovah’s Witnesses in one of their meetings. Many persons think of the "Y" simply as a social organization that offers various services, such as a swimming pool, facilities for athletic training and a place for clubs to meet. Commendable as some of these provisions may be, it is important to bear in mind that the YMCA was founded with a distinctly religious basis. This was set out at a World Alliance in Paris in 1855. The main part of that official statement (called the Paris Basis) reads: "The Young Men’s Christian Associations seek to unite those young men, who, regarding Jesus Christ as their God and Saviour, according to the Holy Scriptures, desire to be His disciples in their faith and in their life, and to associate their efforts for the extension of His Kingdom amongst young men." (Italics added) While in some countries churches may not be the YMCA’s main source of revenue and while membership is open to persons of all races, nationalities and religions, the fundamental religious objectives of the "Y" cannot be ignored. ‘But,’ some may sincerely wonder, ‘is religion or interfaith really an aspect of the YMCA?’ The answer must be "Yes." Though religious features may be de-emphasized in some branches of the YMCA, all local "Ys" are still expected to comply with the Paris Basis. Further, note comments from the 1975 YMCA publication Christian and Open: Anza A. Lema, associate of the executive committee of the World Alliance of YMCAs, wrote: "From its very foundation, it has always looked to the Bible for inspiration and guidance. In many ways its role in the world has tended to complement that of the church without claiming to be a congregation itself. . . . "But it is more than just an instrument through which Christians put their moral ideals and teachings into practice as they serve society. Most supporters of the YMCA look at it as a place where real fellowship with one another through Jesus Christ is experienced. . . . "In humbling itself and trying to relate its structures and services more directly to the community, it will be carrying out more effectively its role of service and priesthood for its neighbours. . . . " Matthias Dannenmann, general secretary, National Council of YMCAs of Germany, said: "From its very beginning the YMCA was no doubt meant to have only Christians as members and on the other hand there was the missionary obligation towards those members who could not yet profess Jesus Christ. . . . "The YMCA is a big offer, but only in as far as Jesus Christ is working in it as Living Saviour. We should do our very best not to drive out this Lord but as we carry him in our name we should personally use every chance of meeting him in the YMCA and of continuously extending this possibility to other people." Officials of the organization have pointed out that they feel that more attention needs to be given to the religious orientation of the YMCA. Dr. Paul M. Limbert, from 1952-1962 secretary-general of the YMCA’s World Alliance in Geneva, Switzerland, wrote: "It may readily be granted that too few Y.M.C.A.s take full advantage of the opportunity for ecumenical education inherent in these informal contacts among Christians . . . "When questions about different forms and beliefs arise among young people and adults, the wise leader takes advantage of the occasion to guide discussion from superficial argument to deeper dialogue. . . . Leaders in both churches and Y.M.C.A.s need to recognize more clearly the essential nature of a lay ecumenical Christian movement. A Young Men’s Christian Association is not a church nor a substitute for a church. . . . Yet the Faith and Order commission of the British Council of Churches declared in a carefully worded statement in 1959 that the Christian Associations are ‘valuable auxiliaries’ of the churches, organs of their own missionary activity."—The Christian Century, June 10, 1964. And The Christian Century of August 29, 1969, in its article "Happy Birthday, Y.M.C.A.!", stated: "Realizing that the Christian identity of the ‘Y’ has often been drowned in swimming pools, its leaders are engaged in recovery of theological awareness and ecumenical vigor. . . . It may be that the greatest challenge to the Y.M.C.A. is to reclaim its religious heritage for the robust assertion of a new ecumenism among laymen in local communities. The Y.M.C.A. just might be able to do things for the Christian churches which, in their parochial rigidities, they seem unable to do for themselves." Consequently, there is ample evidence that the YMCA originated with religious objectives and continues to have such to this day. In joining the YMCA as a member a person accepts or endorses the general objectives and principles of the organization. He is not simply paying for something he receives, such as when buying things being sold to the public at a store. (Compare 1 Corinthians 8:10; 10:25.) Nor is his membership merely an entry pass, as when a person buys a theater ticket. Membership means that one has become an integral part of this organization founded with definite religious objectives, including the promotion of interfaith. Hence, for one of Jehovah’s Witnesses to become a member of such a so-called "Christian" association would amount to apostasy. Some individuals have on occasion not become members but have paid a onetime admission fee, viewing this as simply paying for a commercial service available. Even in this regard it is wise to consider whether this course will adversely affect the consciences of others.—1 Cor. 8:11-13. Jehovah’s Witnesses, of course, appreciate a balanced amount of healthful exercise. The Bible says that "bodily training is beneficial for a little." Yet it adds that "godly devotion is beneficial for all things." (1 Tim. 4:8) That does not mean devotion to a triune God. The Bible does not teach that Jesus is "God" in a trinity, as is taught in many of Christendom’s churches and as is still included in the "Paris Basis" of the YMCA.—1 Cor. 11:3; John 17:3. While interfaith efforts and ecumenism are popular today, they are not upheld by the true God, who told his servants: "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. . . . ‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves.’" (2 Cor. 6:14-17) Also, Jesus plainly said that the Almighty must be worshiped "with spirit and truth." (John 4:24) Most definitely that does not mean joining in a religious cause with persons holding beliefs contrary to what the Scriptures teach. (Rev. 18:4, 5) Thus, it is because of their understanding of what God expects of true worshipers, and of what the purposes and direction of the YMCA are, that Jehovah’s Witnesses may not become members of that organization. Further, it is well to give thought to the fact that in virtually all the years of the YMCA’s existence, it has not acted in harmony with the spirit of Isaiah 2:2-4, as can be noted from the following historical facts: "YMCA services to the armed forces began, in the United States, with the Civil War, and it continued giving service through all wars thereafter."—Encyclopædia Britannica, Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 835, 1976 ed. "In the Civil War, only ten years after its beginning in Boston, and before there were buildings or secretaries or financial resources, a total of 4,859 ‘delegates’ were recruited and deployed and over six millions of donated funds used for the temporal and spiritual needs of soldiers. . . . In World War I, the American Y.M.C.A. assumed an enormous responsibility for service at home and abroad for which a staff of 25,926 was required with expenditures of more than 167 million dollars. In World War II, the Y.M.C.A. became one of the organizations that founded the United Service Organizations [USO], joining as a group of private religious organizations from Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish faiths in an agreement with the Federal government to provide civilian recreational, welfare, and religious services to men in uniform and to war-production workers in communities adjacent to military establishments."—The New Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedia, Vol. 36, pp. 13,467, 13,468, 1952 ed. "YMCA activities for members of the armed forces began during the Civil War (1861-1865). These services increased with each later war and reached their fullest development during World War II (1939-1945). The YMCA maintained more than 450 clubs for the Allied armed forces."—The World Book Encyclopedia, Vol. 21, p. 477, 1978 ed. This kind of service under the name "Christian" was certainly not in fulfillment of Micah 4:3.
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Mrs.Congeniality
I HAVE JOINED THE Y WITH MY FAMILY AND WE HAVE NOT BEEN REPREMENDED-MAYBE ITS BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT GONE TO MEETINGS SINCE SEPTEMBER 2005. SINCE WE HAVE BEEN MEMBERS NO ONE HAS PREACHED AT US AND WE HAVE NEVER BEEN FACED WITH ANY RELIGIOUS LIT. I THINK THE WATCHTOWER IS JUST JEALOUS THAT WE ARE MAKING A PYMT TO THEM. IF YOU LOOK INTO THE Y THEY CAME UP WITH MANY SPORTS. BASKET BALL, VOLLEY BALL, ETC. SO WHY IS IT OK FOR THE BROS TO GET TOGETHER AND PLAY SUCH PAGAN SPORTS!!!! -
Swan
Amazing what a little Search & Replace and Cut & Paste will do to bullshit; but it still remains bullshit.
Questions from Readers
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Is it true that for religious reasons Jehovah’s Witnesses may not become members of the UN (United Nations)?Yes, that is so. We have long recognized that the UN, though not being a nation as such, is definitely aligned with the non governmental organizations of the world in efforts to promote world peace.
In September 1885 the Watch Tower took this position:
"Alas for the international dialouge practiced in the United Nations! They are completely under the control of the nations, by whom they are supported. Though professedly non-partisan, professedly controlled by no one nation, they are more nationalistic than others, since they are bound by all the popular nations."—P. 6.
Later the underlying political purpose and world peace efforts of the UN were mentioned in the September 1964 issue of Kingdom Ministry, used by Jehovah’s Witnesses in one of their meetings.
Many persons think of the "U" simply as a social organization that offers various services, such as a library, facilities for educational training and a place for diplomats to meet. Commendable as some of these provisions may be, it is important to bear in mind that the UN was founded with a distinctly political basis. This was set out at a World Alliance in Paris in 1855. The main part of that official statement (called the Paris Basis) reads:
"The United Nations seek to unite those nations, who, regarding dialogue and diplomacy, according to the Isaiah 2:4, desire to have true peace and security in their life, and to associate their efforts for the extension of world peace amongst the nations." (Italics added)
While in some countries NGO's may not be the UN’s main source of revenue and while membership is open to persons of all races, nationalities and religions, the fundamental political objectives of the "U" cannot be ignored.
‘But,’ some may sincerely wonder, ‘is diplomacy or world peace really an aspect of the UN?’ The answer must be "Yes." Though political features may be de-emphasized in some branches of the UN, all local "Us" are still expected to comply with the rules of NGO membership. Further, note comments from the 1975 UN publication Diplomatic and Open:
Anza A. Lema, associate of the executive committee of the World Alliance of UNs, wrote:
"From its very foundation, it has always looked to the humanitarianism for inspiration and guidance. In many ways its role in the world has tended to complement that of the peace freaks without claiming to be a nation itself. . . .
"But it is more than just an instrument through which nations put their moral ideals and teachings into practice as they serve society. Most supporters of the UN look at it as a place where real fellowship with one another through diplomacy is experienced. . . .
"In humbling itself and trying to relate its structures and services more directly to the community, it will be carrying out more effectively its role of service and humanitarian aid for its neighbours. . . . "
Matthias Dannenmann, general secretary, National Council of UNs of Germany, said:
"From its very beginning the UN was no doubt meant to have only nations as members and on the other hand there was the political obligation towards those members who could not yet profess actually being a nation. . . .
"The UN is a big offer, but only in as far as diplomats are working in it as peacemakers. We should do our very best not to drive out this nationalisim but as we carry nations in our name we should personally use every chance of meeting organizations in the UN and of continuously extending this possibility to other non governmental organizations."
Officials of the organization have pointed out that they feel that more attention needs to be given to the political orientation of the UN. Dr. Paul M. Limbert, from 1952-1962 secretary-general of the UN’s World Alliance in Geneva, Switzerland, wrote:
"It may readily be granted that too few UN.s take full advantage of the opportunity for diplomatic education inherent in these informal contacts among nations. . .
"When questions about different forms and beliefs arise among young people and adults, the wise leader takes advantage of the occasion to guide discussion from superficial argument to deeper dialogue. . . .
Leaders in both NGOs and nations need to recognize more clearly the essential nature of a world peace movement. A UN is not a Nation nor a substitute for a nation. . . . Yet the Peace Making commission of the British Council of Nations declared in a carefully worded statement in 1959 that the National Associations are ‘valuable auxiliaries’ of the nations, organs of their own diplomatic activity."—The National Century, June 10, 1964.
And The National Century of August 29, 1969, in its article "Happy Birthday, UN!", stated:
"Realizing that the Nation identity of the ‘U’ has often been drowned in libraries, its leaders are engaged in recovery of diplomatic awareness and peacemaking vigor. . . . It may be that the greatest challenge to the UN is to reclaim its political heritage for the robust assertion of a new dialouge among politicians in local communities. The UN just might be able to do things for the nations which, in their beaurocratic rigidities, they seem unable to do for themselves."
Consequently, there is ample evidence that the UN originated with peaceful objectives and continues to have such to this day.
In joining the UN as a member a person accepts or endorses the general objectives and principles of the organization. He is not simply paying for something he receives, such as when buying things being sold to the public at a store. (Compare 1 Corinthians 8:10; 10:25.) Nor is his membership merely an entry pass, as when a person buys a theater ticket. Membership means that one has become an integral part of this organization founded with definite religious objectives, including the promotion of man-made governments. Hence, for one of Jehovah’s Witnesses to become a member of such a so-called "National" association would amount to apostasy.
Some individuals have on occasion not become members but have paid a onetime admission fee, viewing this as simply paying for a commercial service available. Even in this regard it is wise to consider whether this course will adversely affect the consciences of others.—1 Cor. 8:11-13.
Jehovah’s Witnesses, of course, appreciate a balanced amount of healthful exercise. The Bible says that "bodily training is beneficial for a little." Yet it adds that "godly devotion is beneficial for all things." (1 Tim. 4:8) That does not mean devotion to a library resource. The Bible does not teach that reading is fundamental, as is taught in many of the worlds schools and as is still included in the UNCLE branch of the UN.—1 Cor. 11:3; John 17:3.
While wold peace efforts and diplomacy are popular today, they are not upheld by the true God, who told his servants: "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. . . . ‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves.’" (2 Cor. 6:14-17) Also, Jesus plainly said that the Almighty must be worshiped "with spirit and truth." (John 4:24) Most definitely that does not mean joining in a political cause with persons holding beliefs contrary to what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach. (Rev. 18:4, 5) Thus, it is because of their understanding of what the Governing Body expects of true worshipers, and of what the purposes and direction of the UN are, that Jehovah’s Witnesses may not become members of that organization.
Further, it is well to give thought to the fact that in virtually all the years of the UN’s existence, it has not acted in harmony with the spirit of Isaiah 2:2-4, as can be noted from the following historical facts:
"UN services to the armed forces began, in the United States, with the Civil War, and it continued giving service through all wars thereafter."—Encyclopædia Britannica, Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 835, 1976 ed.
"In the Civil War, only ten years after its beginning in Boston, and before there were buildings or secretaries or financial resources, a total of 4,859 ‘delegates’ were recruited and deployed and over six millions of donated funds used for the diplomatic and peaceful needs of nations. . . . In World War I, the American UN assumed an enormous responsibility for service at home and abroad for which a staff of 25,926 was required with expenditures of more than 167 million dollars. In World War II, the UN became one of the organizations that founded the United Nations Command for Law Enforcement, joining as a group of private spy organizations from THRUSH, SPECTRE, and EVIL in an agreement with the Federal government to provide civilian recreational, welfare, and library services to men in uniform and to war-production workers in communities adjacent to military establishments."—The New Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedia, Vol. 36, pp. 13,467, 13,468, 1952 ed.
"UN activities for members of the armed forces began during the Civil War (1861-1865). These services increased with each later war and reached their fullest development during World War II (1939-1945). The UN maintained more than 450 clubs for the UNCLE forces."—The World Book Encyclopedia, Vol. 21, p. 477, 1978 ed.
This kind of service under the name "Nations" was certainly not in fulfillment of Micah 4:3.
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drew sagan
good one Swan!
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ivorysnow
Seriously what are yall parents teaching you. There are things to get mad about with being a JW but this certainly isnt one of them. For three years straight i attended the YMCA and no one at the Kingdom Hall looked down on it. I'm so surprised to see this here. I learned how to swim and lost a great deal of weight. Heck i was commended for going. No wonder their is such hostility here. You all need some southern hospitality JWs around yall. and i send 10 cents a day to some little african kid and he writes me letters about how he can go to school now and whatnot. And we donate clothes to thrift stores founded by Vetrans but i dont care about vetrans because i see poor people shoping their and who ever it directly supports mattters to me. Never let any one tell you that Jehovah doesnt want you to help the ones in need. Thats just stone bull. You know what is right, you know what is wrong. You ahve a good heart let it dirrect you to do good things.
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Abaddon
Before I moved to the Netherlands I actually LIVED at the YWCA in Exeter; it ran a block of flats and allowed male tenants, and was convenient and cheap.
I think they had a Christian in reception, at least I assume he was as he had a wispy beard, wore glasses and a sleevless pull-over and sandels, and was always very polite...
Sadly there were no girl-girl orgies I could help out with... cheap apartment though...
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blondie
WTS attitudes towards the YMCA vary based on the local body of elders. I find that the trend tends to be more like the current attitude regarding luaus. Only older JWs remember that article and newer articles have not been written so we have a JW population that is gradually ignorant of past JW policy (much like the 1975 fiasco and the change in the teaching that a creative day was 7,000 years long)
*** g03 4/8 p. 30 From Our Readers ***
Luaus I read with interest your article "Let’s Have a Hawaiian Luau." (June 8, 2002) Several years ago I attended a luau in Hawaii. I felt there were strong religious and spiritistic overtones. Even if luaus today do not involve religious or spiritistic aspects, how are they different from other celebrations that have pagan origins but simply have been adopted by modern cultures to be a family fun gathering?
L. F., United States
"Awake!" responds: As noted there in our footnote on page 24, while the luau may at one time have had a connection with false religious practices, the word now has simply come to refer to a Hawaiian banquet. A specific gathering to which the word "luau" is applied may or may not be appropriate for a Christian to attend. As in all aspects of life, Christians should make decisions that will leave them with a clear conscience before Jehovah God.—1 Timothy 1:5, 19; see also the January 8, 2000, issue of "Awake!" pages 26-7.