Do you believe in sin? (page 2)

apfergus

I think it was Bertrand Russell who said that sin is "that which offends the magistrate."
But in all seriousness, I see no evidence for the existence of any kind of moral absolute. The right course of action is not determined by some list of "wrong" and "right" possibilities. Each situation must be analyzed and the best solution to any dilema should follow from that. It's not easy or cut-and-dried like just being able to check off activities from a list, but I've never found the easiest method to be the best.

MsMcDucket

Ok, here are some examples. Moral wrongs or sin?

Sodomy

Gay marriage

Killing an animal to use it fur

Eating pork

Having sex while not married

Going 100 miles and hour on a 65 mile and hour road

Killing a person in a time of war

Having a baby out of wedlock

etc...

kid-A

Do I "believe" in sin? No. The concept of sin is dependent entirely upon cultural and historical context and has no meaning in and of itself...

As for 'god-defined' morality, again, simply depends on the particular god you are worshipping at any given time.

The opinions of "god-x" versus god-y" as to what constitutes a "sin" is entirely dependent upon the collective ethos of the culture that has created said god.

anewme

Mrs. McD I think there are times when none of those listed are wrong or "sinful"

Its called human behaviour, which is neither demonic nor angelic, its human.

MsMcDucket

Its called human behaviour, which is neither demonic nor angelic, its human.

So, you don't believe that we are "born in sin"; and therefore, prone to commit sin? "Sinful" acts are what man defines and not what god defines?

anewme

I personally dont think Hitler will pay for his "sins" or behavoir. Nor Osama bin Laben.

I dont think anybody does.

I think some behaviour is damaging to others but is not a sin that will result in punishment after death.
There is a certain consequence of sin in this life only.

That is why it is important to bring hurtful people to justice because it is the only punishment they will receive

I think all the adultery and premarital sex and homosexuality and incest and raping and murdering and stealing and lying go unpunished after death.

On the other hand my mother in law seethes with delight in contemplating the eyeballs ripped out of her enemy's head in the fires of hell. (Sweet Christian lady)
I can understand that desire, but I think it aint gonna happen.

So no I dont believe in religious sin, but communities decide what behavoir requires punishing.

blondie

I don't think people are doomed to commit sin. My father sexually molested all of his children, it was his choice, he knew it harmed us, he didn't care, his wants came first.

People have a choice; granted some choices are more difficult and can cause pain to oneself, but we have choices.

Blondie

MegaDude

Ok, here are some examples. Moral wrongs or sin?

In my opinion your entire list is meaningless without a context. For example, you ask if having a baby out of wedlock is a sin. In what context? As opposed to aborting it? As opposed to delivering a baby before you marry? Having a baby and never planning on getting married? Got accidentally pregnant because you weren't careful about birth control?

Obedience keeps the law. Love knows when to break it.

LittleToe

Beyond loving God and neighbour and "to thine own-self be true"?

Methinks we all "sin" continually. How many of us are genuinely true to ourselves at all times?

As for any attempt to relegate the word to obscurity, methinks that's a forlorn hope. It is a word with a meaning, and that meaning continues to have currency in our day and age.

If you're talking about the concept of "orignal sin" however, then you have a debate on your hands that has engaged to sages...

anewme

And to answer your question Mrs. McD, no I dont believe we are born into sin.
We are born to learn the rules and we are given the choice to follow them or not.
Humans must learn what is expected of them. They must learn the rules of society. If they dont they will be breaking the rules and will pay the penalty, the punishment of society.

There are the big rules and small rules. These differ in every society.

Generally marriage is sacred among most cultures and coveting thy neighbors wife is considered wrong and punishable. (Except in certain Indian tribes where the wife is offered as a hospitality gesture)

Bingeing and purging used to be considered as Romanic gluttony, but now is very popular as a weight manager in Hollywood!

Murder is considered wrong, unless the murder is agreed upon by the whole community, then it is considered war or capital punishment.

Lying, cheating and stealing is ok unless you get caught like the Enron executives. The shareholders didnt like that too much. I think they will require punishment.

We could wish all day that God would step in and put a stop to all the hurtful harming of little animals and children and helpless adults that goes on.......but he doesnt. So Oprah had to offer hundreds of thousands of dollars each week on her website to catch child molesters.

Mrs. McD, stop and really look around you at what you see and REALITY. Like you I used to have so many beliefs that were all mixed up and I could not make sense out of them until I stopped and sorted out which I knew for a fact from what I personally observed and those which were fed to me by others.

I came to the conclusion that from birth we are fed propaganda from religion, a viewpoint, that we are born sinful, condemned to die for sins we have yet to commit, but we will.
We were set up as young ones to accept the blood of Jesus which washes away all sin so we can be Gods friends while on earth and reunited with him after death.
Meantime, give money to the church while you are alive you sad sorry sinful soul!
These teachings come from the churches, not the secular sources like school or government. This poisonous concept, indoctrinated into us as children at the insistence of the church, keeps the church's coffers filled and new loyal converts coming in generation after generation.

Well it stops in my line with me!
I will not teach the poisonous doctrine of original sin to my children.

They are beautiful and wonderful and loving and worthy of Gods love and mine!

Do you believe in sin?

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