Still pointing your Finger when having a Rafter in your eye? (page 23)

Island Man

DocHouse: Finkle- if one gulliblibly accepts an opinion as a fact- the fault is THEIR'S.

DocHouse, Watchtower does not present it's BS as merely their opinion that you can choose to accept or reject. You are choosing to redefine their questionable teachings presented as truth as being merely an opinion so as to justify your continued support for an organization teaching falsehoods. You are essentially mislabeling the Watchtower's false teachings because you are in denial.

And by the same reasoning you used, quoted above, you would also have to blame all the members of all the other false religions for believing the falsehoods their religions teach them and you would have to also excuse the religious leaders for teaching those falsehoods by also mislabeling their falsehoods as being merely opinion.

I'm beginning to notice a trend, Doc. Most if not all of the excuses you use to justify Watchtower and justify your continued support to them, can also be used by members of other false religions to justify those religions and their continued support to them. You are basically making partial distinctions, using arguments to support your position that you would not accept as reasonable or just arguments if they came from a person of another false religion.

Let me leave you with something to think about Doc. Jesus said this at Luke 21:8 (RSV):

And he said, “Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and, ‘The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them.

Jesus told his followers that people will tell them the time is at hand - the end is immediately imminent - and warned them not to go after them. This is exactly what Watchtower did for a good chunk of its history, setting dates for the end of the current system of things. C.T. Russel even published a book with many ridiculous, false end time predictions entitled . . . "The Time Is At Hand!" !!! If that isn't a fulfillment of Jesus' words at Luke 21:8 then I don't know what is.

The argument that they were simply interpreting existing bible prophecies and not making up a new original prophecy simply does not wash. Jesus gave no exceptions when he said do no go after those making such predictions. Wouldn't it be utterly stupid for Jesus make give such a warning and not mention that important exception and then later choose men as his FDS who do this very thing, with the result that many sincere people refuse to follow them because of Jesus' own words? How stupid do you think Jesus is? Just imagine that you are a sincere student of the bible alive during the time of C.T. Russel and J.F. Rutherford, and you are familiar with Luke 21:8 and notice that the International Bible students headed by Russel and later Rutherford were doing exactly what Jesus said to be wary of - including writing a book of false predictions the title of which, perfectly matches the false message Jesus said to be wary of! What do you think you should do - join the International Bible students, or not follow after them in obedience to Jesus? Do you honestly think Jesus would have chosen the very kind of people he warned his followers not to go after, to be his FDS? Something has got to be seriously wrong with your thinking or honesty if your answer is yes.

Also, given that the bible does, in fact, predict an end to the system, anyone of those false prophets Jesus warned not to follow could always give the excuse that they're merely interpreting scripture that speak about the end. In fact, given that such false prophets are targeting christians - for the scripture says that they'll come in Jesus' name (claim to be christian and maybe even claim that Jesus appointed them as the FDS in such and such year) - it is to be expected that they would base their predictions on existing bible prophecies that talk about the end, twisting these and other texts to propagate their rubbish. What better way for Satan to attempt to deceive christians than to use false prophets twisting scriptures and claiming their use of scripture excludes them from being considered as false prophets? So this excuse about interpreting existing bible prophecies is really a very weak and desperate tactic that is really nothing more than an irrelevant technical contrivance for the sake of obfuscation and misleading gullible people into trusting the false prophet.

So again, do you really think Jesus now approves of an organization that fulfills the role at Luke 21:8? You're making an idiot out of Jesus - or yourself? Which is it?

JWdaughter

mad. . . you dont buy it either, you just yhik it is the lesser of the evils.

Finkelstein

Well said Island Man

DocHouse

Erbie, Romans DID execute on crosses- but used a stake when wood was scarce.That detail is hard to find, since tradition fogs most minds- but you WILL find it if you look deep enough. Your faith was based on the WTBS- mine has NEVER been.

LoveUni- "what gives you the right to decide which faiths are/aren't Christian?"

The 'Right' to compare what Christ taught to what the churches teach.

DJS- I hate to break your delusion ...nah! I LOVE doing it... but Jesus is the one who will judge; not the WTBS, I, or least of all (thank heavens!) YOU.

Viviane

Doc, you've not the foggiest idea what Jesus taught. Stop pretending you do.

EdenOne

The four 'canonic' gospels + Acts as we know them today do not truly represent the core teachings and deeds of the historical Rabbi Jesus and his early disciples. They represent a later, highly fictionalized version of his life, including some snippets of somewhat unreliable historical events * and sayings transmitted via oral tradition across decades, then coupled with a lot of fiction, tailored to fit a conceptual religion invented by the apostle Paul, that departed from judaism ** into something that the intellectuals of the Roman-Greek world could accept. And it worked! Paul was genius. And it would be wonderful if it were true. It's a great story, but sadly it doesn't adhere to reality. Therefore, it rightfully deserves its place among mythology, where there are elements of historical truth [Jesus existed, was a gallilean, an itinerant teacher/preacher of the Law, had disciples, clashed with the establishment, was executed by the Romans], but in pretty much everything else he never intended to start a new religion, dismiss the Mosaic Law, had a pre-human existence, etc ...

[* For an example of this, consider that Jesus was never a contemporary of Herod, The Great. Herod died at least four years before Jesus was born. Luke got his timeline wrong.]

[** Hint: If you want a much closer version of what the historical Jesus really taught that managed to survive in the pages of the Bible, your best choice is the epistle of James. It's no surprise that it's so much at odds with the epistles attributed to Paul. James was a traditionalist, who kept circumcision, nazirite vows and going to the Temple, while Paul was "teaching an apostasy against Moses" (see Acts 21) If you want an example of that, just look at how different is Paul and James' theological stand regarding salvation: by faith alone vs. salvation by works.]

Eden

EdenOne

The point I'm making, DocHouse, is this:

BEFORE you even consider who has the truest interpretation of the Bible, who adheres to the teachings of Christ more closely, who best represents God on earth, you must FIRST consider carefully and unbiasedly if the collection of books that you build your entire belief upon is reliable, historical, factual, or simply a man-made collection of stories that came to be to fit a man-made religious agenda. It's really pointless to go any further unless you establish that first, in complete honesty - and by 'honesty' I don't mean 'sincerity'. I mean integrity, reliance in facts and not devotional readings. I suspect that you have so far treated that subject too lightly, otherwise you wouldn't be having these discussions in the first place. It's ok, I made that very same mistake. But you need to educate yourself a lot more if you want to be taken seriously.

Eden

DJS

DocHouse,

I have read and re-read your response to me and I have no idea what you are trying to say. You set yourself up above and apart from the Borg's Dark Lords, from all other X-tians and without a doubt from all non-Xtians and non-believers. Others are being nice to you; I'm calling a spade a spade.

You are a delusional narcissist who came to this site for no other purpose than to show your amazingness and awesomeness. You and you alone, according to you and you alone, have special knowledge and the correct scriptural interpretation where all others before you have failed. All hail DocHouse and his amazingness and awesomeness.

We get a steady stream of people like you. In the words of the 21st Century philosopher, Justin Timberlake, go ahead be gone with it (you). Or better still, stick around and learn something.

Finkelstein

DocHouse says .... but Jesus is the one who will judge

If that's what you believe then what the hell are you doing consorting with men who are acting in direct opposition to what Jesus expects and commands of his followers.

Abiding to false prophets who are involved in proselyting their false teaching via their own publishing house, is no way to appease God or Jesus .

A commercialized fraud designed to have the appearance of preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ is disgusting in the eyes of the Jehovah.

LoveUniHateExams

DocHouse - I see you've ignored my second question, well done, so I'd like to put it this way:

Do you believe that the F&DS (GB) is God's channel to mankind?

The fact that you've taken the trouble to join a forum that 'good' JWs regard as 'apostate' suggests to me that you may have doubts.

My advice to you, FWIW, is stick around - everybody's allowed their opinions and beliefs here, and allowed to voice them in a sensible manner.

I hope you sort your situation out

LUHE

Still pointing your Finger when having a Rafter in your eye?

Share this