This use of days has always bothered me. What happened to the concept of a "day for a year?" Who decided when you can use literal days and when you need to use years?
Question about the 1260 and 1335 days
by mathead 19 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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mathead
And would therefore terminate in about WHAT!!
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no one
Lost everything the 1st post. Made an abbreviated post and lost half of it.
Watchtower July 1, 1951 p. 408
Right on time prophecy was fulfilled. The 1,260 days would commence when the Gentile times ended, about October 1, 1914 and would therefore terminate about April 1, 1918
Watchtower 8/15/59 p. 405
26 This period of three years six months corresponds with the forty-two months or a thousand two hundred and sixty days during which Jehovah’s “two witnesses” were to prophesy dressed in spiritual sackcloth or mourning. (Rev. 11:1-3) This period began in the first half of November, 1914, and ended on May 7, 1918
Our Incoming World Government-God’s Kingdom p. 127-133 THE THREE AND A HALF “APPOINTED TIMES” 17 When, therefore, did the three years and a half, which were to be climaxed by that shattering action against dedicated, baptized Christians, begin? How was that beginning marked?
18 Well, June 21, 1918, fell, according to the Biblical lunar calendar, on Tammuz 11, 1918. Three lunar years back from that, or Tammuz 11, 1915, fell on June 23, 1915. Then the half of a lunar year, or six lunar months, back from that would be Tebeth 11, 1914, which coincided with December 28, 1914.—See The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, under the heading “Jewish Calendar for 200 Years,” pages 634-639 Watchtower 8/1/94 p.31: Questions From Readers
We enjoyed studying prophecies of Daniel as treated in “The Watchtower.” Why, though, did the dates for the three and a half times of Revelation 11:3 differ from the “Revelation Climax” book?
Yes, The Watchtower of November 1, 1993, did offer a minor adjustment as to the dating of the modern fulfillment of Revelation 11:3. Why?
Let us first look at Revelation 11:2, the end of which mentions “forty-two months.” We continue in ?Re 11 ?verse 3: “I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth.” When does that apply?
Well, Jehovah’s Witnesses have long recognized that this prophecy found its fulfillment with spirit-anointed Christians after the end of “the appointed times of the nations” (the Gentile Times) in 1914. (Luke 21:24; 2 Corinthians 1:21, 22) Commenting on this, Revelation—Its Grand Climax At Hand! (1988) says on page 164: “There was a marked period of three and a half years when the hard experiences of God’s people matched the events prophesied here—starting from the outbreak of the first world war in the latter part of 1914 and continuing to the early part of 1918.”
Note that the dating offered was “the outbreak of the first world war in the latter part of 1914 [till] the early part of 1918.” This matches the dating often presented, such as in “Then Is Finished the Mystery of God,” pages 261-4, (1969).*
However, The Watchtower focused on prophecies in Daniel, a book that twice mentions a period comparable to that mentioned later in Revelation—3 1/2 years, or 42 months. To be specific, Daniel 7:25 says that God’s holy ones would be harassed “for a time, and times and half a time,” or 3 1/2 times. Later, Daniel 12:7 foretells “an appointed time, appointed times and a half,” or 3 1/2 times, that would be climaxed with “a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people.”
So we have prophecies dealing with a comparable period at Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, and Revelation 11:2, 3, as well as at Revelation 13:5. Our publications have shown that all of these found fulfillment in the 1914-18 period. But in treating each of these prophecies separately, the dates for the beginning and for the end varied a little.
However, The Watchtower of November 1, 1993, asked: “How were all these parallel prophecies fulfilled?” Yes, the prophecies of 3 1/2 times mentioned at Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, and Revelation 11:3 were recognized as “parallel prophecies.” Hence, they would correspond as to their beginning and their end.
As to the ending, the magazine showed how the harassment of God’s anointed ones (Daniel 7:25) climaxed in June 1918 when J. F. Rutherford and other directors of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society were “sentenced on false charges to a long term in prison.” That event certainly was “a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people,” as noted at Daniel 12:7.
Counting back from June 1918 leads us to December 1914 for the beginning of the 3 1/2 times. In that closing month of 1914, God’s anointed ones on earth learned the theme scripture for the coming year: “‘Are ye able to drink of My cup?’—Matthew 20:20-23.” The article announcing it warned: “Who knows but that there may be some special trial, cup of suffering or ignominy, for the loyal followers of the Lamb during 1915!” As Daniel 7:25 foretold for this period of 3 1/2 times, ‘harassment arose and continued against the holy ones themselves of the Supreme One.’ Nations were embroiled in World War I, making it easier for them to carry out unjustified harassment. The conclusion is: All three parallel prophecies—Daniel 7:25, 12:7, and Revelation 11:3—found fulfillment in the 3 1/2 years, or 42 months, from December 1914 to June 1918.
This explains the slight refinement in dating the fulfillment of Revelation 11:3. This adjustment is something we can bear in mind as we study and use the Revelation Climax book in the future.
Watchtower 4/15/60 p. 248-252
Only the Scripturally intelligent ones will be allowed to understand the book of Daniel and all the rest of the Bible.
W69 5/15 p. 296-- Daniel was so keenly interested in the fulfillment of his prophecies that he asked God’s angel about the matter. The angel told him that the fulfillment was a secret and sealed up until the “time of the end,” and that is exactly where we are now. How thrilled Daniel would be if he could be alive today as his book of prophecy is opened up to human understanding! Oh, how he would rejoice and delight to reach this time in history for the climax of his prophetic words! So we should take great delight in examining Daniel’s words for our day, feeling especially privileged to understand what Daniel himself could not discern.—Dan. 12:4, 8, 9. -
no one
I give. The more I try to fix it, the worse it gets. Apologies.
In the 50's, the WTBTS tried to tie the beginning of the 1260 days to the end of the Gentile Times. That left the ending date untied to any significant event. Later, they decided that the Gentile Times didn't end on October 1 and moved the date.
They then used the May date of issuing arrest warrants as the ending date for the 1260 days, but had nothing to firmly link the beginning to.
Then they moved the end to the sentencing date of June 21 and used the year text to tie the beginning to.
Then, since none of this shit equals 1260 days, they muddied the waters for calculating how many days there are by switching from counting time on the Gregorian calendar to the Jewish calendar in the 'World Gov't' book (also a parenthetical comment in Daniel book) in the hopes that those who tried to calculate the number of days would just assume that under the Jewish calendar, it must come out right.
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Hellrider
1930:
1260 days are literal days, from a specific article in Watch Tower Nov 7 1914 to May 7, 1918 when and arrest order on WTS president and board members was issued. In Your Will Be Done this understanding is given as evidence that the "time of the end" has come and these words can be understood. [Light I, p 199; Your Will be Done on Earth p181,331]Isn`t that just amazing, that someone would have the audacity to attribute a passage in the Bible to themselves personally!?! It`s as if I said that "hmm, I`m pretty sure the 1260 days spoken of in the Bible refer to the number of days I spent studying at university...because this was an important stage in the development of my personal theological views blah blah blah". Talk about narcissism. The WTBTS have the greatest Messiah/God-complex anyone has ever had.
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mathead
Thanks
I understand that the period in general from 1914 to 1918 is tied in with the 1260 days. But what about the Cedar Point convention on September 3 1922 ?? According to JWFACTS.COM site, that date is the ending of the 1260 days and the start of the 1335 days. How does Sept 3,1922 fit in ??
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mathead
I did some of my own research, here goes
The babylon the great book (of 1963) talks about the cedar point convention of Sept 1 - 8, 1922, but there is no mention of the 1260 days as ending on the date of the cedar point convention
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"Their worldwide organization was repaired and international contacts were reestablished. On September 1, 1919, an international assembly of them was held in Cedar Point, Ohio, to continue for eight days. On September 5 the Watch Tower Society’s president, with nine months of imprisonment behind him, addressed the thousands at this assembly on the subject "Announcing the Kingdom." In this address President J. F. Rutherford quoted and made a modern application of the prophecy of Isaiah 52:7 (AV ): "How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!" On Sunday, September 7, he addressed a public audience of 7,000 on the subject, "The Hope for Distressed Humanity," and spoke in favor of God’s kingdom as against a human substitute, the then-proposed League of Nations"
End Quote
Since the babylon book was written in 1963 then this means the WTS connected the date of Sept 1 - 8, 1922 with the ending of the 1260 days AFTER 1963. In the babylon the great book, the 1260 days are only mentioned once in this paragraph:
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"Accordingly, a symbolic or prophetic "time" would Scripturally equal three hundred and sixty (360) years. If, now, three and a half symbolic "times" amounted to 1,260 symbolic days, that is to say, 1,260 years, then twice three and a half (or seven) symbolic "times" would be twice 1,260 years, that is to say, 2,520 years. Thus the "seven times" that are mentioned in Daniel 4:16, 23, 25, 32 in connection with the tree dream would stand for two thousand five hundred and twenty literal years. In that period of time the lunar years, by means of their regular thirteen-month years, would balance off with the solar years and would equal 2,520 solar years."
End Quote
Again, no mention is made of the 1260 days as ending on Sept 1 - 8 ,1922 at the cedar point convention. Now I am keen to know what the first WTS publication was, that says the 1260 days ended at the cedar point convention??
Of course this whole 1260 and 1335 is complete WTS BS
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Gamaliel
mathead, Take a quick look at the Daniel book pages quoted on this forum. It's about the 1290, not the 1260 or 1335. http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=903&pid=12960&st=0entry12960
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Star Moore
Hey there:
Here's the scripture, I think you are talking about..
Dan. 12:1 NAV "At that time there shall arise a prince, guardian of your people. It shall be a time unsurpassed in distress since nations began until that time. (great tribulation).......vs. 7 The man clothed in linen, who was upstream, lifted his right and left hands to heaven; and I heard him swear by him who lives forever that it should be for a year, 2 years, and a half of a year: (3 1/2 times). And that, when the power of the destroyer of the holy people was brought to an end, and all these things should end..................From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the horrible abomination is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is the man who has patience and perseveres until the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. Go, take your rest, you shall rise for your reward at the end of days."
So, it seems to me that these are the events that take place during the great tribulation, at the very end. The WT definition is SO outdated and wrong!!!!