Jehovah's Witnesses and arguing...

by Abaddon 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    One thing I have noticed, both in my own reportoire of personal habits and in those of others posting on xJW boards, is the tendency to argue.

    I contrast this to a few other boards I've frequented on a variety of topics. Obviously there are disagreements, but xDub boards can get REALLY crazy at times.

    There is this tendancy for xJW's to argue like rabid dogs; hell, it's not just the x's who do it, current JW's are just as bad.

    This is over and above the normal 'spit on the mat and call the cat a bastard' atmosphere that often prevails on discussion boards (although if you ever want to see a really polite board I suggest you go to a lifestyle BDSMer's board!!).

    Why is this? Are we all psychos?

    Well, in addition to the obvious answer being yes, one has to remember as JW's you are conditioned NEVER TO BE WRONG. People who disagree with you are BAD.

    Thus arguing with someone who has had any real amount of exposure to the Dubs can be like walking into a propeller.

    We can't be wrong, it's just not in our skill set. And as we are right, others are wrong and being wrong is bad.

    Now, this, if you think about it, is a load of pony poo.

    Virtually all of us are wrong at times, even if some make it more of a habit than others. And, you can be wrong and still be a good person. Like, major revelation!

    But, if you don't think about it and go with your subconcious programming... then I think many with our backgrounds lose perspective at times when discussing things.

    There is also the 'Beastie Boys Syndrome'. "You've got to fight (chngchng) for your right (chngchng) to be free to do what you want any old time". Okay, so that's a bit of Beastie Boys and Rolling Stones/Soup Dragons mixed up, but you get what I mean even if I sound like that guy from 'High Fidelity'.

    When someone has been sat on your head farting malodorously and restricting what you can say (well, that's what it felt like for ME being a Borgette), and you get out, you develop this rather rose-tinted view of 'freedom'.

    It becomes something that is not "just some people talking" ('Desperado'), or "just another word for nothing else to lose" ('Me and Bobby McGee'). It becomes real, tangible... holy.

    Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

    So, anyone restricting your freedom becomes a fire-breathing hypernazi from the nth plain of hell. By default.

    It might be the difference between saying 'I disagree with what you say in this and that and such a way', and the difference between saying 'you mutated zombie baboon, I micturate on your grandmother's memory and exporate upon all you hold dear, not only are you wrong, but your children are ugly because I disagree with what you say in this and that and such a way'.

    But if someone says 'Hey, mind the zombie baboon bit', it's like 'NAZI!! YOU'RE OPPRESSING ME!!', and then decends into a sub-Monty Python sketch over what f~~~ means in what context and whether merkin (a pubic hair wig) counts as bad language. When actually, you can say what you like really, anyway.

    So, to summarize, does anyone else think that the 'arguing like rabid dogs' thing and the 'FREEDOM!!!!!!' obsessativia is a left-over from Dubdom?

  • nytelecom1
    nytelecom1

    soup dragons were cool but never as good as the stone roses

  • MrMoe
    MrMoe

    That is a very good point Abaddon. I think ex-JW's do have one edge though - they are ex-JW's for a reason.

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    i think arguing is pretty universal. ive been in all types of groups with all types of people and people argue all the time.

    arguing is inevitable and I don't mind it really. arguing is more interesting when someone makes valid points rather than going off on
    personal insult harangues though

    one tendency i see here is to try to localize the problems we have to being ex-witnesses. i think it is important to our healing process that we understand that our circumstances aren't unique to us, at least this is healing to me.

    it makes me understand that i am really part of a bigger picture of how people behave not in a special class.

    the only thing i really think distinguishes the JW culture from other cultures is the shunning policies. all other cultures believe different things and have different rules for dress, education, behavior, etc.

    the evil power behind the Watchtower is the marking, bad association, disassociating and disfellowshipping practices.

    joel

  • Introspection
    Introspection

    Part of it may be due to being an ex-JW, but then again you can't blame everything on that either, because then you're saying you can't help being that way, and that's just a universal excuse.

    I think the other part of that is people will argue more online, when you don't have to face anyone. You do see a lot of this in other online forums as well.

    It seems to me what it comes down to is people's self concept and world view are identified with other people's opinions, which is actually kind of an infantile pattern. Rather than indicating any kind of strength, it betrays a sense of insecurity. Not only is it a matter of being conditioned to never be wrong, but it's a matter of thinking you need to have all the answers. I think someone posted an article about this (or might relate to this) a while back, but it's kind of a survival instinct. It's like rather than being secure with what you think, you're always trying to prove something. It's a terrible thing not knowing your place in the world. (Unbreakable) But guess what? Winning an argument (if it ever ends) doesn't mean you're right or eliminate the threat, it just means you won't hear about it from that individual anymore. Hmm, could this be something like object permanence? Out of sight, (or hearing) out of mind.

    "Soy un perdedor
    I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me? (get crazy with the cheese whiz)" - Loser, by Beck Hansen

  • Bgurltryal
    Bgurltryal

    I agree that arguing happens no matter what your background. But I must say being an 'always was worldy' person with an ex-JW boyfriend for three years now I have come to see some thought processes and quirks that seem to be JW specific.

    I can't think well right now. It's too early. But i intend to make a post about it sometime.

    Yeah...i suck. 'y'all are weird but i ain't sayin' why'

    Just...can't...think..straight...

  • slipnslidemaster
    slipnslidemaster

    Actually, I'm kind of interested about why you are hanging out on lifestylers BSDM boards?

    But you are 100% correct. There isn't a more polite place to hang out.

    Slipnslidemaster: "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"
    - Seymour Cray

  • Ballistics Ghost
    Ballistics Ghost

    I know what you mean, just after mrmoe left the chat room yesterday, I got into a huge argument with robdar.
    Then mega joined in.
    I was getting told to inject heroin and go back to the kingdom hall, all kinds of stuff like that.
    I don't know how it started, they blamed it on you mrmoe, but I don't know.
    I think sometimes actual Jehovah's Witnesses come on here with the intention of stiring sh*t.

  • Stacey
    Stacey

    Like I said in another post.... *sigh* why cant we all just get along???

    Ok, the arguements can be a little fun sometimes. But can also get old quick. I say, no one can change another persons world. We all live in our own little world within our brains, and everyone is different. So I guess it's bound to happen. Live and let live, with a few "discussions" along the way. I guess that makes it kinda fun.

    Peace to you all,
    Stacey

  • Winston
    Winston

    I think a good arguement is healthy it means we are thinking and we don't just go with the flow.

    We may get our feeling hurt well that's life, maybe we will be forced to see we can't have it our way all the time, maybe we might be helped to see life from someone elses veiw.

    I feel Being Right is not unique too any group just that we may be alittle more prone to it.

    A good arguement can even give us help in fighting depression. We get our mind off our problems and on to how can I win this arguement for sport maybe.

    So to look at it as something to be avoided I don't think so.

    It's all what you make it or don't make it.

    Former elder turned apostate (by WT definition)[:)}and proud of it!

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