Scriptures You Will Not Hear at the 07-04-06 Church Sermon

scout575

"Enter ye at the strait gate for wide is the gate and broad is the way, that leadeth to DESTRUCTION, and MANY there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto LIFE, and FEW there be that find it." ( Matthew 7:13,14 )

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me ye CURSED, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels." ( Matthew 25:41 )

"And these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT: but the RIGHTEOUS into LIFE ETERNAL." ( Matthew 25:46 )

The "cursed", "many", are heading for "everlasting" "destruction", but the "righteous" "few", are heading for "life eternal". New Testament bigotry at its worst.

freetosee

Hi Scout,
I agree, to me the bible isn’t very in righteous many ways. Good Christians I know don’t approach the bible as we did as JW’s. Some of them don’t take the bible as literal and they admit to the human factor in it and still find much pleasure in their worship. I am very happy for them. It is great to take out the good parts and live by them. The judgmental parts and attitudes are most disturbing to me.
freetosee

scout575

Freetosee: These weekly posts are really directed at JWs who may be considering joining a fundamentalist church. Whereas liberal Christians have given themselves the leeway to view the bigotted parts of the Bible as 'not reflecting the true nature of God', fundamentalists don't have that luxury. They feel duty-bound to try to 'harmonize' the above texts to their belief that 'God is love', just like we did when we were JWs. Its a tricky job, to say the least.

Liberal Christians feel no such obligation. If I were a liberal Christian who believes that some parts of the Bible do reflect the true nature of God, and some parts don't, I might begin to wonder whether the 'nice' parts of the Bible are just as much of human origin, as are the 'nasty' parts.

Shining One

Hey Scout,
>New Testament bigotry at its worst.
Bigotry is not the issue, dillweed. The NT is absolutely clear that it is the WORD of GOD and that all other faiths will lead you to hell. A fact stated is still a fact, not some politically correct, wishy washy opinion.
Rex

scout575

Shining One: You say: "The New Testament is absolutely clear that it is the word of God." It may seem strange to some, but it was my disillusionment with the NT that left me with no choice but to leave the 'truth'. Whilst the recurring barbaric portrayals of God, in the OT, troubled me greatly, it wasn't enough to make me leave because I reluctantly accepted the reasoning that God could read hearts, and that he only killed those who truly deserved it. However, the NT became increasingly unacceptable to me due to the way that its writers take such glaring liberties in their applications of their quotations from the OT. I could be facetious and say: The soul that is spinning, it itself will lie. The truth is, I prefer not to call them liars, but they are certainly the unapologetic purveyors of spin.

Shining One

Hey Scout,
Isn't it kind of arrogant and bigoted to try to sway others from finding their faith in a Bible believing church? I mean, who are YOU to determine what is good for others? If the Bible is not your guide in life any more then just leave it at that. That's your choice. You aren't duty bound either!
>fundamentalists don't have that luxury. They feel duty-bound to try to 'harmonize' the above texts to their belief that 'God is love', just like we did when we were JWs. Its a tricky job, to say the least.
It is impossible to harmonize all scripture. You are showing your own bias and misunderstanding in this statement alone. An apologist does try to reconcile scripture but that is to keep all of the Bible haters honest so they don't get away with the cheap shots. One thing that you are doing is you are trying to use skeptical arguments that have been hashed and rehashed time and again.
Rex

scout575

Shining One: I make these weekly posts, not out of arrogance or bigotry, but because I feel it is in the best interests of any JW 'lurkers' who may read them. I've spent many hours reading ex-Christian message boards, and I'm intrigued at how the posters on those boards make very similar complaints about their Christian background, as do many posters on JWD make about their JW background. The word that they keep using on the ex-Christian message boards is, 'Cult' or 'Christcult'.

I feel that I would be doing JW 'lurkers' a dis-service if I didn't point out what I believe to be true about the Bible ( it may be the the first flush of zeal of the new, Christian de-convert ). To quote one of the posters on an ex-Christian message board that I read recently: "I am more confident in my unbelief than I ever was in my faith." I feel the same way, and believe me, I had a ton of faith.

Of course, you're spot on in saying that I'm using 'skeptical arguments that have been hashed and rehashed', but to the JW 'lurker', they may be new. I'm not going to stop hashing and rehashing my arguments any more than Christians are going to stop hashing and rehashing their arguments.

Shining One

>I had a ton of faith.
Really, in what? Think about it. Also, making some connection between someone who claims to be an ex-believer and the situation of each individual is not logical. You also do not have any solid facts that are indisputable.....
Rex

scout575

Shining One: You ask, in what did I have faith? I had faith in God, a supernatural Jesus, the redeeming power of his sacrifice, the Bible being inspired of God, eternal life, heaven, judgement day, etc. I had profound faith in thses things and zealously preached them for many, many years. I gradually came to view them all as myths.

Obviously, my no longer believing in these things, doesn't constitute proof that they're myths. Its ironic though, that it was solely through the daily reading of the Bible that my faith eroded. I read no anti-Christian or atheistic literature. It was the deep flaws within the Bible itself that left me with no choice but to leave the 'truth'. I did this despite the fact that I enjoyed being a Witness. I don't view my time as a Witness as a waste, as I still believe wholeheartedly that there is much in the Bible that is good and helpful. I benefited in so many ways by my long exposure to the Bible, and I will always be grateful for that. I very reluctantly came to the conclusion that the Bible is of human origin alone.

Shining One

>I don't view my time as a Witness as a waste, as I still believe wholeheartedly that there is much in the Bible that is good and helpful. I benefited in so many ways by my long exposure to the Bible, and I will always be grateful for that. I very reluctantly came to the conclusion that the Bible is of human origin alone.

Now, just go ahead and ask Jesus the big question, just like I did. I was devestated by the same thing and I cried out to God. "I don't know if you are out there or not. Everything I have been taught is a lie. What is TRUTH, God? Help me to understand and if you are there, show yourself in unmistakable ways!"
He did.
I'm saved by grace through faith.
I have a personal relationship with Him.
He holds me in faith, no credit to myself. He is the redeemer and the Holy Spirit gives us evidence in our daily walk.
Rex

Scriptures You Will Not Hear at the 07-04-06 Church Sermon

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