I found this and am in total agreement. Feel free to answer the Questions.

by jw 155 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  AuldSoul

  The faults are known worldwide with the WTS.

  I tried to avoid responding, but this is just an unbelievably bold lie. Very few people know much at all about the doctrinal errors of the Watchtower Society, about the hypocrisy of the leadership, about the rampant nepotism, their Pavlovian and MKULTRA conditioning techniques employed to both weaken will and motivate action through sophistic manipulation of meanings, and the list goes on and on of faults the world is largely completely unfamiliar with.

  Most of all, these faults are unknown within the WTS. And that is one of the places Web sites like this one reach.

  As to getting together on anything, you and many others who venture in here seem to think that we "apostates" are all alike in some ways. We are not. The only thing the forum members here have in common (including yourself) is that we have all been affected in some way by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, and/or the congregants who claim to be Jehovah's Witnesses.

  That's the one common thread here, which is why the Web site is called "Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum", instead of "The Right Way to Serve God Discussion Forum" or the "How to Make Things Right Using jw's Idea of God's Way Discussion Forum".

  Now, if instead of generally hurling insults you have some specific, practical things for us to consider that aren't religio-centric (out of respect for those here who don't do anything just because God said so) please share those. Otherwise, you are pissing into the wind and most of it will end up on you.

  AuldSoul
• 

  AudeSapere

  AuldSoul wrote: "...MKULTRA conditioning techniques ..."

  Sorry to deflect - could you please tell me what this is?

  -Aude.
• 

  Big Tex

  I don't mean to speak for Auld Soul, but I believe MKULTRA is/was a program instituted by the CIA some time back whereby one could implant instructions or behaviors into another through hyponsis or drugs. If memory serves, some have hypothesized that Sirhan Sirhan was one possible example of such conditioning to murder Robert Kennedy.

  For the record, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just stating what my poor brain remembers.

  Chris
• 

  AudeSapere

  As to getting together on anything, you and many others who venture in here seem to think that we "apostates" are all alike in some ways. We are not. The only thing the forum members here have in common (including yourself) is that we have all been affected in some way by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, and/or the congregants who claim to be Jehovah's Witnesses.

  That's the one common thread here, which is why the Web site is called "Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum", instead of "The Right Way to Serve God Discussion Forum" or the "How to Make Things Right Using jw's Idea of God's Way Discussion Forum".

  For some reason I got a chuckle out of this!!

  It's true though. I remember even back in the 70's someone was telling me about groups of ex-witnesses and was making jokes about them trying to start up their own religion. One where they could 'be worldly and still like serve Jehovah'. Like he'd accept their prayers...!!

  Most witnesses just seem to assume that all ex-jws are identical. They just don't understand the concept of I-N-D-I-V-I-D-U-A-L-I-T-Y and freedom of thought and freedom of expression. They further seem to believe that we all have the same belief system - especially if we associate with each other - because that's all they know. To only associate with like-controlled minded puppets people.

  -Aude.
• 

  AudeSapere

  For the record, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just stating what my poor brain remembers.

  Thanks, Chris.

  Interesting. I had never heard of this. I will google it for further info.

  I was afraid it was something referenced in the 6 pages of threads and really didn't want to wade thru all the posts.

  Thanks again.

  -Denise.
• 

  AuldSoul

  Chris and AudeSapere,

  That was one (better known) branch of MKULTRA, but there was an extensive segment devoted to societal conditioning through manipulation of a society's collective understanding of words. A supposed example of such conditioning is available in Jonestown, according to conspiracy theorists (who aren't always wrong). The principles harken back to World War I techniques used to fire up German troops, picked up on and expanded by European scientists in the 1920s (along with eugenics) and successfully employed in all aspects of Nazi recruitment, training, and propagandizing.

  An example was the systematic semantic association of Jews to rats and vermin, in pictures, with videos, and in print. It is not difficult to get a human subject to loathe vermin. It is difficult to get a human subject to loathe other humans. So, change the semantic association in the subject's mind and now specific other humans are vermin. The WTS uses similar tactics with certain "undesirables." They are very effective at using such sophistic techniques.

  The US used similar techniques with soldiers and the public regarding the Japanese during World War II. Their efforts were so effective that many oriental people's who were not Japanese were interred right along with Japanese citizens of this country for their own protection.

  MKULTRA was a suite of efforts, under the one umbrella, all directed at manipulation of minds to achieve certain objectives.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Regardless of how you feel about Jehovah's organization--the true religion,

  Could you please prove this assertion?

  one thing for sure, you will not escape the Almighty Jehovah's judgement right along with Satan the devil and his destructive organization.

  Have you any proof that 'Jehovah' will execute me? What sins are you aware of? My presence here - and how does that differ from yours?

  How will you save yourself and those who follow you...? It's ashame that your energies could not be put to a more positive use. ...saving lives! Are you doing that now? ....Are you offering others hope?....direction? unity? Peace? Security? a futrue?

  Not one single person 'follows me' I have no following! I doubt many or even any here do! As far as saving lives goes - how many have you saved? How ? By bringing them into the Watchtower sales force? You have no hope either to offer - but the security of a clearly proven false prophet organization - your denial changes nothing in that regard.

  The bible speaks about individuals like yourself--who would speak against God's people, but You cannot mock Jehovah, whatever you are sowing you will reap....

  I don't speak against God's people - only small minded cultlike Book publishers that pretend to have the 'truth' without 'proof'. I certainly do not mock God [Jehovah if u will] - when I left the witnesses after 43 years I became a Christian.

  if you don't believe in Jehovah...who do you pray to now? He only listens to those that are busy doing his will, not those that are looking to glorify themselves....

  I do believe in God the Father. To Him I pray. I am busy doing his will as specified in the Bible, not the Watchtower. I seek no glory.

  you really are following in your fathers' footsteps--Satan, the devil. Your articles have a lot of material, however, you fail to have scriptural backup.....how true can it be....when not one scripture is sighted!

  How so? Are you aware of my relationship with God, so at to so boldly declare that I worship and follow Satan, just due to my not attending the indoctrination and recruiting sessions of Jehovah's witnesses any longer? I can cite sciptures till your eyes bleed, son. Does that count me as righteous in your eyes or in God's? BTW - where are your quotations of the Holy Bible?

  Jeff
• 

  poodlehead

  Wow I really don't know where to begin. So I will take it step by step.

  "Jehovah's organization- the true religion"

  I have not meet a person from a religion that doesn't think he is the true religion. You can only feel that you are the true religion. No one knows for sure. But there would be one defining mark. Love- and guess what? I don't see it from them and I don't see it from you.

  "How will I escape Almighty Jehovah's judgement right along with Satan the devil destructive organization."

  Well let me see. I plan to follow the bible and live a life that I think he would be proud of. I plan to practice the bible to the best of my abilities. And by excepting Jesus as my savior. I think that's pretty much it.

  "Saving lives, Offering others hope, direction, unity and peace and security."

  I guess you could say that is why most of us are here on this web site. To help others with what they have gone through. And to save lives. Mainly those who think refusing a blood transfusion will make them saved. Actually it just makes you dead. To giving other peace and security from the abuse they have suffered under the name of Jehovah.

  "Those of you who would speak against God's people."

  There again you are making an assumption, that you are gods people. There again, where is that LOVE. That would mark you as God's people. Still not seeing it!

  "He only listens to those who are doing his will"

  Doctrine not biblical. God hears all prayers. You mean to tell me you don't believe that if somebody is not a JW and the pray for help finding the true religion and they later become a JW. God didn't hear that prayer? (Not that I am saying JW is the true religion. Because I MOST certainly am not.) But I can't believe you believe that. And guess what most JW believe god hears all prayers. Sorry need to talk to your elder about that one.

  "Don't believe in Jehovah who do you pray to."

  Well you know what? Because of the wonderful work people like you have done to hurt people, like those on this site. I would not be surprised if more than half no longer believe in any kind of God. And you can delude yourself in thinking it has to do with Satan or were just selfish. But I believe that the damage this society has done has hardened the hearts of alot of people and they will never be able to let it go. The rest of us pray to that God that most religion prayed to until JW came around and brought up the name Jehovah. We pray to the God of the Bible, Jesus father. I think since he is God, he knows who we are talking to. Some of us still use Jehovah's name, we just don't want anything to do with the orgainization who assumes since they use his name that they are his people. Don't assume.

  "You are following in your fathers footsteps= Satan the devil."

  Some would say you are, the ones following in Satans foot steps. So you can acuse. But can you prove it. Do you know the heart condition of everyone on this site. If you do, maybe we should pray to you? Oviously you know who is going to hell or being cut off. Wow that must be great to be able to pass judgement like that. Humm I thought that was God's job. Good thing he has you to do his work for him. (Must be bussy from answering all those prayers from non JW's.)

  And yes you aren't going to find a lot of scripture siting here. I will give you that one. We are not here to debate each others believe of the bible. The religious dogma and doctrine of JW and other religions. We are here to suport each other. We had enough of that crap in our past. I know I begin to twich when someone talks to me about the bible. I find almost repulsive. So much damage has been done in the name of God, it still is very hard for me to pray or even talk about the Bible. But I try and I know he understands me and want's to help me. That's why he led me to this web site. Yeh I know you don't believe that one. Must have been Satan. Oh but I have never been DF and I used Jehovah's name. So prove that he didn't.

  I really hope your elders find out you are posting here. Then maybe you will have a little more compasion for the others here. Yes you would get DF. So how does it feel to be doing a DF offense Might as well have Fornicated in the eyes of the god you pray to. Doesn't matter if you are caught or not. It is a DF offense. So by your own beliefs. Guess what I guess you will be joining us in hell.

  I will pray for the people you meet at the door. Because you have no tackt and are very rude. I will pray that you do not affect them and turn them away from God.
• 

  spawn2u

  I did not want to give you any energy back by responding so I am responding without being conscience, I am using a spiritual medium to type and I am smoking dope. Psyche!!
  Actually I have one thing to say, when I was sat down with the Elders and they were done reading scriptures about my sins, they read the last scripture to me that made the most sense. They said that I could return to them however no man can tell you your outcome only the one true god. When I was a JW I would have never found this site because like a good little JW you should not be reading any of these posts. You better go tell the Elders so that you can repent and be saved!!!!
• 

  XBEHERE

  Do the elders in your cong. know that you post on this board bro? Seriously??