Why do so many show such anger towards JW who post here? What might help? (page 3)

brother

If I posted my above rant on the wrong topic, oooops sorry! NEWBIE here, lol

I can relate, lovelylil. On occassion I've been accused of reverting to JW-thinking. Usually if I've really managed to sting. It didn't seem to matter to the accuser that I CANNOT be an ex-JW. I never was one.

greendawn

I have also noticed that whenever JWs post here everyone or rather most people begin attacking them with an intention to drive them away as if they were unwelcome intruders in the ex JW territory.

There is little tolerence for JWs and though I don't agree with it I can understand why so many act in that way, because they were/are being put through some rough times by the WTS by being shunned, had broken families etc there are many here with hurt feelings.

juni

FOOD FOR THOUGHT - LADY LEE.

Thank you.

I feel though that a lot is lost when you can't talk to the person directly - you can't get any feedback from eye contact or voice expression. So you try to make yourself clear with your answer and often times it's clear to you, but is confusing to others.

I resort to the PM feature to have a more one on one. Makes it easier to stay on the topic and clarify something that's not understood.

Juni

Lady Lee

Some interesting points Thanks

Gumby

I was one of those who were offended when I came here as a believer.
I think MANY of us forget where WE came from and how we felt when we first exited........and assume newbies or lurking witnesses should understand.

Glad you hung in there Gumby

mavie

However, I think it's important for all, JW or not, to be respectful when posting here. Negativity turns people off. I made that mistake with my second post.

Welcome to the board.

blondie

we have to be sure they are not just "pulling our chain"

How do we know - really know that? A few years ago when I was in college we had a person in the class who triggered a lot of anger in people. She was in our study group so I had to work with her. I know whenever I left that class I and the rest of the group were always furious. I had to sit down one night and ask myself just what was it that she was triggering in me. She wasn't outwardly obnoxious. She was polite, very nice but boy was she ever able to bring the worst feelings in me.

What I realized was that she was very controlling. She would come into the group and decide what everyone else was going to do - no asking, just dictate. And with my issues regarding anyone dictating to me she hit thise buttons. Once I recognized what was happening in me, I was able to sit in the group and find another healthier way for me to deal with my control issues and anger. I never felt the same anger in the class again. Instead of being focused on what she was doing I was focused on what I was doing. It worked beautifully.

Granted some people are deliberately trying to stir up trouble. But we still have the option to ignore them. If no one responds they aren't going to be yanking anyone's chain.

itsallgoodnow

I mean, if you really feel a certain way about something, why go to your "opposition's" discussion board unless you mean to cause an uproar?

Interesting. Would that be the only reason? I don't know - just asking

undercover

A sincere JW could come here and raise our ire just by being a JW, because they really believe that they are special and that we're lost souls. They may not mean to come across as judgemental or mean-spirited but their general way of thinking prevents them from being much different.

Yup we should all recognize that feeling. I wonder whether some of the anger we pour out on them is anger we might have towards ourselves for having been so naive and falling for the scam for so long.

Having escaped that attitude and way of thinking, it can trigger something in us. Something that rises up and challenges their holier-than-thou attitude. I'm not saying it's right. It's a defense mechanism of some kind. We sense trouble or danger, we strike back quickly to try protect ourselves.

It' very well could be a defence mechanism. Those of us who have "seen the light" is it at all possible we are afraid of being conned back into it? I hope not.

I've been guilty of jumping the gun and lashing out at a JW poster who really may have not been trying to yank our chain but because of his indoctrination may have not known any other way to address the board.

I wonder how many of us are still under that indoctrination though. It's an interesting idea. So afraid of being reindoctrinated we lash out in a polar reaction.

I tend to ignore those threads for the most part, at least until their true colors show. If they're sincere in their questions, it'll show soon enough. If they're trolls, that's even more apparent after a few posts.

I keep see ing people posting "Do Not Feed the Trolls" It rarely works Bizzy Bee

I would guess that your agenda is the first one - ? To help JW's who come here to get out?

No I don't think so. Not my style. If they are happy there then I doubt there is much I can do to change them. My interest is much more on helping those who realize the scam and are struggling to be free. I really believe that when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. Those sincerely looking for answers to their questions already have doubts and will find a variety of support that will appeal to their particular needs.

I agree

For me, humor is very helpful in deflating the emotional ties that are usually more persistent than the intellectual ones. So that is more often my approach to apologists. Those with sincere doubts get a different response

I don't think I would have survived as long as I have if it weren't for a good sense of humor

BT

It is human nature to feel anger at discovering you were betrayed, lied to, had family and friends stripped away and/or told repeatedly what a 'bad' person you are or that God hates you. So from that standpoint it is understandable when re-experiencing old attitutdes, platitudes, phrases and judgments, anger would boil and an overreaction take place. The wounds, for many, are too new and fresh.

so true

I remember when I first left, I'd rip the magazines in half, or throw books across the room when they were shoved in my face. I was not very pleasant to be around, as Nina can tell you.

love truly does conquer all.

When conversing with an active Witness, there are certain atttitudes and behaviors that will, sooner or later, come into play. When we were in that sect, we behaved similarly.

Which makes me wonder again how much we still have some element of the black and white thinking going on that we are fighting so hard against.

But shouldn't the point of a conversation be more about an exchange of ideas rather than a grudge match to "prove" who is right and who is wrong?

Exactly. And I really think that sometimes it isn't a matter of right vs wrong but seeing what is in the middle

Josie

But if someone comes here only to flame, harass, and troll on the board I see nothing wrong in letting the person know they've stepped out of line. Maybe there are kinder and gentler ways to do this.

bingo

NY44M

I remember when I was initially questioning my beliefs. I would many times post what appeared to be a pro-jw comment. In reality my goal was to articulate what I was taught my whole life so that hopefully an intelligent person could explain the faults in my reasoning. Some times the results were positive. However, many times I received very negative responses from very angry posters. The process was very frustrating and quite discouraging.

This is exactly the type of situation I think I want to avoid. I'm glad you stuck it out too.

From person experience the moral of the story is: A poster may know what they write is faulty. However, the goal of the discussion is not to argue. Rather, the poster may genuinely want explained why the reasoning is faulty.

exactly. I wonder how many sincere searchers have been run off. Perhaps more lurkers who have seen what happened to others and gone back after reading some of the responses

AuldSoul

I believe a One-on-One discussion area might be very beneficial for this purpose. It would be good for everyone to be able to read the posts there, and start threads in other areas if they wanted to discuss things that spin off from the One-on-One discussions or PM the ex-JW or JW possible suggestions for talking points, but basically allow the person to engage one poster in testing their basis for their convictions.
I can think of several instances where such One-on-One discussions could have prevented a JW from leaving in anger and frustration

I really think this is a good idea. And anyone could do it. Start a discussion with a JW who comes here. In the first post ask others to not respond and see where it takes you. The second commentary thread is a great idea as well.

looking_glass

Although I am not a jw, I am a jw sympathizer. I can see thru the eyes of the ones I love that are still jws that they would never stay in the thread to read all the good reasonable posts made because they would be so offended by those threads that are aggressive that they would automatically pull out the persecution card and leave.

I've seen many comments like this over the years here

I agree with everyone that has said that respect is a big way to address the issue. However, it is difficult being the poster and the responder to a post, when you feel that you are personally being attacked. Religion is a passionate subject, it often causes the spirit to flare in defense of a matter.

Which is why diccusion of religion and politics are often no-nos. And most of us here are very passionate about having been duped. And I think very frustrated that family and friends just can't see what we see

But again, the medium we are using to post our thoughts can be easily misunderstood. It is a false medium, so how can we assure that what we write will be taken in the context it was meant. I don't think that is possible.

I think this is a big part of the problem. Our personal perspective. How does that play into the kind of responses we might give to someone on the board.

I just past the six month mark from my sister's death. On top of that her birthday just passed. I have been so angry at my mother (still a JW) who decided that my sister wasn't worthy of a funeral. Needless to say JWs aren't high on my list of "people to be friendly with"

If we have had a situation come up in our lives regarding the JWs how might that be shaping the perspective we bring to any discussion? Words on a screen don't allow for emotional context. So our emotional state is what adds the emotional context. We can get that soooo wrong sometimes

Granted when there is an apparent all out attack there is no confusing the meaning of the text. However, I do think there have been times when I have read a post and someone else has read a post and we have taken it's meaning differently. So again, how do you prevent people from taking offense when no offense was meant. I don't know if that it is possible.

I have seen many simply ask if that was the meaning. It works really well. Ususally the other person replies that they meant no malice. So many things that could have boiled over have simmered down just by asking what was meant.

mavie

Pro-jw comments are not necessarily an indication a person blindly believes what they just typed. It's almost like a cry for help.

I was in for 22 years. I know there were things I couldn't resolve on my own. Having a place to experiment and discuss those doubts would have been invaluable.

heathen

I hate them because the they are lying thieving hypocrytes that insulted and conspired against me for no reason at all . The ones I was related too are complete jerks that think they know everything and can crap on whoever they want whenever they want .

sadly too many of us have been treated so badly. My mother has always treated her kids badly both befreo she was a JW and now she just has a "religion" to give her permission to continue it

JG

There's understandable anger towards an organization that has done so much damage. I imagine as soon as a visible target shows up (professed JW), it is darn tempting to take out all that pent-up rage on them.
It's so much easier when the newbie JW uses those trigger words, phrases, and bigotry used to separate themselves from the stinky "world". Such as "You all hate Jehovah."
I do find such language highly offensive. How can they assume to know anything of my motive or who I am?

They are well taught that anything on the outside

For whatever reason, they have a need to talk it out. Think of latent gays and their homophobia. I think for some JW apologists, we are a dreaded obsession. They stick around just to see what we will say.

exactly

lovelylil

What I resent that happens sometimes is if I post anything that may agree with some of the JWs beliefs in any way, then I am told I am still brain-washed and under their mind control. I really hate that. It happend recently when I said I did not believe the trinity. This is a view I have held at least 13 years of my life prior to the JWs. It just happened to agree with the WT, and I dont think all their teachings are wrong. When I stated this, the poster who said I was still brainwashed did not believe what I was saying.

The reality is that not everything the JWs teach is bad. Believing some and rejecting other beliefs is OK. Name-calling is never acceptable.

Recently I started the thread calling "name calling and bullying in the name of religion", Many of us have not learn how to debate in a way that does not resort to trying to tear down and totally humiliate the one with the opposing view. And we still believe there is only one right answer. It is the black/white mentality that we need to change. I don't see any need for this at all.

agreed The black/white, us/them perspectives are what we were taught as JWs. In reality those polarized views are unrealistic. I really believe we need to see how those polarized beliefs are helping us or hurting us. While it is normal to swing to the opposite side of the pendulum we eventually need to find a happy middle ground

We all need to respect everyone else's opinion. We did not like the way the WT dehuminized us by name calling (demonized, apostate, etc) so you think we would learn the lesson and not do the same thing to others. I think if it resorts to name calling or similiar tactics, I will just stay out of it in the future.

My personal belief is that respect is always best - for ourselves and for the other person. When I get too emotionally charged and frustrated I leave the discussion. It's just not worth it to me to get all bent out of shape. cab

JWs are warned that apostates are always negative and angry because they are now so unhappy so your point is well taken.

The last thing I want to do is prove the WTS is right about anything

blondie

How do we know that they are pulling our chain.........it takes time..........based on their questions, answers, and treatment of others on this board. Cetainly not in the first few posts...even if they are "pulling our chain" it defeats the whole thing of getting your point across if you get angry or disrespectful. Answer for the lurkers that are reading.

Blondie

Jamelle

Good thread and interesting comments by all!

I have refrained from posting on any threads involving someone who is still a JW because I get so angry at what they say.

I can't trust myself not to say something really nasty in return.

And I do not feel comfortable trying to respond to them nicely - I guess I feel that I spent a lifetime being put down by JWs and treated as if my opinion less than mattered - I don't need more of the same.

I'm sure that the motivations behind current JWs (who are pro JW) coming to these boards are varied. I hate generalizations. But you can only be hit by a truck so many times before you step out of the road. And I've been hit by the emotional "truck" of dub-speak and hate and scorn too many times to count.

If someone is polite, that's one thing. I can handle that. The holier-than-thou stuff will immediately cause me to just turn away. It's a defensive reaction from my "exiting" days that I haven't shaken. Right or wrong, that's just me.

Lady Lee

Took me an hour to make the last post only to find out you have all been busy talking

java

Most of us have had similar histories in that we were JWs, but that’s about where it stops. Folks posting can carry JW baggage, hurt, anger, hate or embrace religion, different social and economic backgrounds, etc. It’s an open market of minds and places, and all in all I think most behave fairly well. It’s true that some posters get ganged up on if they have JW filters in front of their glasses, but that’s going to happen in any group that was spiritually raped by a cult. Stuff can boil over quickly, and it’s easy to jump into the fray.
You’re right, it might be better if that didn’t happen, but look from wince we came.

so true

brother

Personally I do not feel a great deal of resentment toward the religion, but I do know a few who do and the majority of those are the recently disfellowshipped. I don't blame them at all. As most of you know how hard it is, with some growing up in this religion or some serving many many years, to have so-called friends one day and then the next to be totally ignored and shunned. This is an extremely difficult situation not only from an emotional point of view but also spiritual, because some feel that since they were ousted by the congregation, they feel that they have sinned against the holy spirit as well. Basically feeling "ousted" by God also(which we know is not the truth) This can cause many mixed emotions that sometimes come out, more so in this forum, because where else are ones going to vent.

Toatally agree. Suffering for years under the heavy loads the WTS put on us we absolutely need a place to vent, rant, rage and eventually heal.

What all of us can do for the the newly DF'd or anyone feeling resentment or anger is for ourselves to show the "real" love that Christ spoke of (unconditional). We can also show them that there is still a God that cares about them. Thanks for allowing me to vent.

One of the things I love about this board is the support people give to others who are hurting due to WT policy

PS great response - welcome

greendawn

I have also noticed that whenever JWs post here everyone or rather most people begin attacking them with an intention to drive them away as if they were unwelcome intruders in the ex JW territory.

There is little tolerence for JWs and though I don't agree with it I can understand why so many act in that way, because they were/are being put through some rough times by the WTS by being shunned, had broken families etc there are many here with hurt feelings.

I've seen it and I think it ispeaks much more on where the attacker is emotionally. I've been through a hell of a lot of abuse in my life. I totally understand people needing a way to release the anger and hurt. Keeping it in is not the solution. but lashing out at others isn't either. Passing that abuse onto others is never acceptable.

juni

I feel though that a lot is lost when you can't talk to the person directly - you can't get any feedback from eye contact or voice expression. So you try to make yourself clear with your answer and often times it's clear to you, but is confusing to others.
I resort to the PM feature to have a more one on one. Makes it easier to stay on the topic and clarify something that's not understood.

an excellent idea.

Fe2O3Girl

I find it hard to believe that a sincere believing JW would come here at all. Crackpot JWs who choose to ignore the fact that they are not supposed to associate with us don't come here for any reason other than to stir and insult and be rewarded with pages of attention. I will not give them anything.

There are some current JWs who are struggling with teachings or treatment, and their demeanour and posting style is completely different.

I post a picture of my baby son and get a couple of pages of replies, someone comes here and insults us all and gets 10 pages of attention.

My dog likes to roll in anything really foul and smelly she can find. I don't.

Why do so many show such anger towards JW who post here? What might help?

brother

What-A-Coincidence

jgnat

greendawn

juni

Lady Lee

blondie

Jamelle

Lady Lee

Fe2O3Girl

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