by LDH 16 Replies latest jw friends
* http://www.circuitleasing.com
For any newbies who don't know about this. The WBTS takes the cars that the congregations have paid for, and sells them.
Do you remember voting to pay for a car for the Circuit/District Overseer a few years back?
This is where they all end up. Sold. For a profit. Has your congregation gotten any of their money back?
Lisa
edited for hyperlink...
WHAT? Nobody wants to fill out the form and get a free keychain?
[8>]
What I'm more interested in is figuring out the financials of 'Circuit Leasing Corp.' Can anyone help?
Lisa
I just filled out the form. Although I am not sure why they wanted my phone number. Oh well, if they call me I have privacy screener to make sure no sales people call me.
"Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford
LDH:
I don't know how you expect folks here to have financial "specifics" on this? Max probably can fill in "some" details.
However, from the "general things" that I know about such "financial arrangements", I see NOTHING WRONG with this, since it is primarily a "cost-cutting" measure. If any so-called "profit" ocurrs when the auto is finally disposed, then so what?
For individual COs and DOs to purchase individual automobiles, as well as resale or trade-in their old auto, it would mean a lot of lost time, as well paying individual auto dealers significant profits on the new auto as well as receiving low trade-in amounts, etc. Even if the WTS tried to negotiate a "good deal" from one auto dealer, the various issues would only be slightly improved, plus there would be the hassle of getting the new auto to where it is needed, as well as transporting the trade-in back to the dealer, etc., etc.
By establishing an "auto leasing" corp, there are numerous financial and time saving positives.
First, most problems due to "nationwide issues" are solved. Second, vehicles can be purchased for approximately 10-15% BELOW dealer cost. Third, auto mfgers will dropship an ordered auto to a local dealer (where the auto is needed) who will do any needed prep, paperwork, etc. for only a service fee. All a CO has to do is go to a local dealer and pick up the new auto. (Big time and hassle savings.)
Third, the CO's old auto must now be sold. I have no idea how "marketable" such are to JWs, but I'm guessing that JWs now consider such an auto as "holy". Circuitleasing probably has no difficulty selling the old autos for close to full used retail price.
Whatever "profit" they receive over and above the original cost minus lease payments would then recycle back to the WTS.
Does anyone know for sure that CiruitLeasing is a subsidiary of the WTS, or was it set up by outside "supporters"?
If they have not repurchased autos more recently than the 1999 models advertised on their webpage, then any "profits" from this operation will be very small. Has this page not been updated?
Mad,
I don't know how you expect folks here to have financial "specifics" on this?The same way we get financial specifics on other corporations wholly or partly held by the WBTS. If you don't know, speak for yourself and yourself alone. Others DO know.
If any so-called "profit" ocurrs when the auto is finally disposed, then so what?Maybe you missed the part where the WBTS classifies themself as a 501c3 (non-profit).
By establishing an "auto leasing" corp, there are numerous financial and time saving positives.No one disagrees that the way to go is by leasing these automobiles in the first place. How fleet leasing works was never at question. Any goombah knows the more of one item you buy, the better price you will get. That was never at issue. Did you read my original post thoroughly?
Maybe you don't get it. These cars are not for sale to COs and DOs. They are for sale to the general public.
Now, that's fine with me. But, if you were anywhere near a KH in the mid 90's you would have remembered taking a vote on the CONGREGATIONS in each circuit absorbing one payment per year, or whatever their pro-rate worked out to. Now, since the circuits paid for these vehicles, when they are ultimately sold/replaced, shouldn't the CIRCUIT get the 'profit' you casually mention? Wouldn't that at least get back half of the money they forked out?
The 2001 BASE MODEL Regal is $23,575. Let's say the 1999 fleet price was $20,000.
Circuit Leasing is selling 1999 models for $14,000.
The Kelly Blue Book is $11,000 for a 1999 model with 50,000 miles on it. Circuit Leasing is selling them for around $14,000.
http://www.kbb.com
So, in short, MA, The circuit paid approx $20,000 for a car in 1999. That car is being sold today for $14,000.Who gets the $14,000? Shouldn't the circuit/congregations who bought it in the first place get that money?
I see NOTHING WRONG with thisThat's your privilege to have this opinion. OTHERS don't share it with you.
Does anyone know for sure that CiruitLeasing is a subsidiary of the WTS, or was it set up by outside "supporters"?Phone numbers are listed on the site for your convenience. I've already called and had my curiosity satisfied.
I was regular pioneering when I made a commitment to chip in even more money at the hall. Not only to the:
*Literature fund (Global preaching work)
*Remodeling fund (local hall remodeled in 1995)
*New Kingdon Hall fund (remodeled hall wasn't good enough, so after 2 years of fighting over whether ot not to remodel it, we did and then two years later built a brand new KH 2 miles down the road. This reminds me of yet another EXPERIENCE, I'll post later)
*Jehovah's Witness Assembly Hall in Henrietta, NY
* and now a CAR for the CO.
*etc etc etc.
So, although you find it to be not a problem, I don't share your sentiments. Maybe I just don't understand the 'new math.' [8>]
Lisa
PS Jayhawk, most interested to see how fast you get YOUR keychain!
Genius WannaBe (NOT):
Maybe you could post those financial "specifics" about WTS subsidiaries to which you refer that you and everyone else know?
Your stupidity about the WTS being a "not-for-porfit" along with the inference that it can't sell something for more than it has in it speaks for itself.
Even your continuing statements indicate YOU don't understand how the process works.
Do you understand the definition of "donation/gift"?
To answer your last question: YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND MUCH OF ANYTHING.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
EDIT: I checked NADA (anyone who knows anything about auto values knows KelleyBB is a poor source), and $14,000 is exactly right for the Retail Price of these 1999 autos.
As for your comments below, ALL QUANTITY and NO QUALITY.
Post some financial specifics... NO YOU DON'T HAVE ANY, and everyone here knows it!
Dumbass, if you, a Cong, a Circuit or anyone else makes a "donation", you have no right to later ask for your money back just because an asset was disposed of.
Do you even know how much of the original value was paid off over the life of the lease? You assume the autos are fully paid off. You don't know such, or much!
Snot Nosed Brat/Newbie that gets no respect:
Maybe you could post those financial "specifics" about WTS subsidiaries to which you refer that you and everyone else know?Maybe instead of insulting people you should research them for yourself. Do you know how to do independent research after years of being fed WBTS resources?
Do you understand the definition of "donation/gift"?Let me repost what I stated earlier.
I was regular pioneering when I made a commitment to chip in even more money at the hall. Not only to the:
*Literature fund (Global preaching work)
*Remodeling fund (local hall remodeled in 1995)
*New Kingdon Hall fund (remodeled hall wasn't good enough, so after 2 years of fighting over whether ot not to remodel it, we did and then two years later built a brand new KH 2 miles down the road. This reminds me of yet another EXPERIENCE, I'll post later)
*Jehovah's Witness Assembly Hall in Henrietta, NY
* and now a CAR for the CO.
*etc etc etc.
Gifts, all. Donations, every bit including my time.
To answer your last question: YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND MUCH OF ANYTHING.WHAT last question? I think you meant "to answer MY last question." (Stickler for accuracy here.)
Max probably can fill in "some" details.He left the board, remember?
Your stupidityI supplied hard facts from unbiased sources. Maybe you should contact Circuit leasing like I did if you want some specific answers. Do your own research. Unless *you're* too stupid to know how.
Maybe you could post those financial "specifics" about WTS subsidiaries to which you refer that you and everyone else know?Like I said.......
Mad Apostate,
If you really want to know, why not call them on Monday? The lady who answers the phone is very nice. As I mentioned in my original post, this is a recycled topic from several months back, where I did the research and posted at that time.
I posted this info for newbies who have a right to know what happens to the assets they donate. Are you aware that non-profit organizations have to make an accounting for thier money? Should the WT be any different? Do you even know which of the 60+ corporations the WT owns in whole or part handles the Fleet Leasing arrangements? I didn't think so.
You are more foolish than I took you to be initially, which is pretty bad in and of itself!
I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt when you insulted Max, stating 'others felt he had an arrogant attitude as well.' (This is a well know elementary school tactic, speaking for/defending your friends. But when you get to be a grown-up, and assuming you are, you let others fight their own battles.)
But your rude remarks to me have been so out of line and uncalled for, perhaps it's not the benefit of the doubt you need. Perhaps it's a serotonin regulator.
Kelly Blue Book just celebrated their 75th year in business, NADA their 68th. I'm sure the folks at Kelly *CARE* that you think they are a poor source.
Do you think you are an authority on Fleet leasing? Or perhaps you're in the used car business. And we all know how much credibility used car salesmen have.
DumbassWatch it. I really mean that. I've shredded people better than you with one hand tied behind my back.
Lisa
Your stupidity is endless.
Why focus on how the WTS disposes of "auto" assets.
Maybe they could sell Bethelite shit to local farmers for use as fertilizer.
Maybe you need to sort through WTS garbage to see how wasteful they are in that respect.
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. The auto leasing arrangement saves $$$$, thus saving $$$ for those who foot the bills-donors.
What do you expect them to do with older autos? Sell them at a loss?
Eat them?
Afraid of you "shredding me"? NO, just afraid of being buried under a mountain of stupid shit.
Since I had, and will likely have to continue, to post info on this topic, I will also put this later post in this older thread, since the Board FOOL LDH seems to not to be able to comprehend:
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CircuitLeasing may first appear to be a "real issue" until it is examined objectively. Then, it only remains a "real issue" to simple minds like LDH.
The fact is that certain Borg personel, like COs, drive automobiles. (Anyone wish to condemn that fact?)
The purchase, operation, and eventual disposal of such autos cost $$$$. (Anyone wish to condemn that fact?)
Such expenses are eventually paid, either directly or indirectly, by the rank-and-file. SO, it would be a good thing if the WTS could find some way to cut auto expenses, thereby SAVING the R&F's $$$$. (Anyone wish to condemn those facts?)
CircuitLeasing is not the first time that the BorgCorps have worked with its own individual BorgMembers with regard to purchase of "physical assets" used by the Borg.
(Anyone wish to condemn that fact?)
In order to participate in the manufacturers' discounted Lessors program, and in order to satisfy all legal, insurance, etc. requirements necessary to operate nationwide, it was necessary for some individual JWs to set up a separate legal corporation. (Anyone wish to condemn that fact?)
This arrangement reduces the expenses connected with "auto assets", thereby saving $$$ for the R&F.
OBVIOUSLY, once a particular auto reaches a predetermined "mileage" and age, the auto shuld be replaced. (Anyone wish to condemn that fact?)
OBVIOUSLY, once the old auto is returned to CircuitLeasing, they now must dispose of that auto the same way any dealer, or even one of us, would. THEY SELL IT!!! (Anyone wish to condemn that fact?)
Since the Buicks are nice autos, and they have theoritically been well maintained and safely driven, then why would individual JWs, or anyone else, looking to buy a used auto, be forbidden to buy one from CL?
ANYONE WISH TO CONDEMN ANY OF THESE FACTS?
